Lets play a little game

Like those games where say they give you an imaginary 500k to spend on the stock market.

I'm crap when it comes to ICE but I know I like nice sounds.

I already have a good head unit, well I hope so it was 380 quid so now I need some speakers and stuff to go with it.

The game is you have a £1000 limit and you need to buy me the best system you can(not including head unit becuase I have one). So go forth and shop and come back telling me what to buy

Should have just PM'd Foxie though he seems to know his stuff.

for what sort of system?

SPL?
Streetbass?
SQ?
Multimedia?

haven't got a clue what your on about. I dont want any TV's or CD changers, I can connect my Ipod to my stereo and I have not car for watching TV in my car so its purly for brilliant sound. I'd like it clear and chrisp but I'm also a fan of a nice bit of bass now and then. All I have in the car at the moment are the standard speakers and some shiiiiiiite 6x9s that I bought just becuase I need some more volume.

SQ= Sound Quality. Purely focussed on accurate sound reproduction

SPL= Sound Pressure Level. Purely focused on going as loud as possible.

Streetbass= Best way to describe this is probably SPL but for daily use with a bit of music thrown in!!

Multimedia= screens, ps2, sat nav etc etc- pretty self explanatory

Your requirements sound more SQ than anything else. Based on that and £1000 budget I would say:

FOCAL K2P components £375.99



MTX MXA4001 400 Watts RMS Mono block - £249.99



MTX MXA3002 2x75 Watts RMS 2 Channel Amp - £199.99



Focal 27-V2 11" subwoofer - £180.99



TOTAL - £1006.96

So long as its installed properly I can tell you exactly how this will sound:

Clean, fast, very dynamic and clear. Bass will be very tight and punchy, should hit quite hard but wont drop too low unless you have some clever box design.

well worth thinking about

Spot on that sounds good mate.

Whats best when it comes to a sub. With the correct housing for it is that all you need? I can make it all look nice with in time but for the sub to perform at its peak it just needs the right enclosure?

Would it be a good idea to strip out all the old wires and stuff and replace with new ones.

Also any advise on sound deadening.?

Cheers again

EDIT: Where are those prices from mate??

most subs have a reccommended enclosure size and type from manufacturers. However there is no "correct" design as such.

Different box designs will give different audio characteristics. Generally the recommended designs give the best "all round" performance, sometimes though, that isnt what an individual might want, they might for example prefer a box to "peak" at quite a low frequency (say for arguements sake 35htz). At this point to get this response you would need to design an enclosure with the right size and port tuning in order to get that response from the box and sub. it gets more complicated when you think that different subs perform with different characteristics in the same size enclosure as well!

For the sake of simplicity, I know off the top of my head that the polyglass focal subs above dont tend to like running ported anyway, they normally only ever sound "right" when in a sealed enclosure so that makes life a lot easier to start with. as for enclosure size, I would keep it quite small as if you go too big (above 1.2 cubic foot) they start to sound pretty "boomy" and slightly hollow. keep the box at 1.0 cubic foot and should sound spot on

sound deadening- easy peasy. dynamat extreme- as much as you can afford. dont be under the impression that you need to apply it edge to edge either as it works in small panels as well.

Prices on focal are from http://www.raysmith.co.uk/

the other prices i have taken off the retail price list from work (i work for BBG distribution, we import a shedload of car audio brands including focal, dynamat, mtx, phoenix gold, JL audio, exile etc etc)

finally cabling, so long as it is thick enough to handle all the current draw, theres no real need to change it all. I would say you need a 4 gauge run of cable to keep those two amps happy.

that mtx/focal setup will be sweet, i reckon you could get that for about 800ish if you tried hard.

Cheers again, I'll defo be dropping you a PM in the next few weeks when I'm makeing the enclosure. Would it be possible to order the stuff through you guys then??

I'm building the boot build myself with the help of a mate who had 20years experience as a carpenter and is an absolute perfectionist so it should look pritty smooth.

Is it a good idea to create a false floor.

the plan is to have the boot like this (side ways view)

EDIT: Diagram removed it came out shit.

Then above the amps I was thinking of clear perspecs with Volkswage or VW engraved onto it.

Would I need some sort of extractor fan for the amps?


I know what i want in my head thats a bit of a shite diagram.

If the amps are facing the air in your boot with nothing covereing them they shouldn't over heat, but it cant really hurt. I have had 2 installs, both done by me, the first had the amps peeping through a false floor, but this was crap as they got scratched and hot, best to have then behind perspecs or somthing with a fan, or on the sides of your boot.

Yeah looking down into the boot they will be behind a carpeted floor with pespecs for the amps to look through might put a cool little fan somewhere to suck some of the air out. Or I could get some water cooling action on the go

I want to get started now!! but dont think I'll get paid till 2 weeks tomorrow.

haven't been paid since February ffs!!! and I have worked every possible working day god sends!!

Yer, just wak a fan pushing air in at one end, and pulling out at the other end, it'll b fine. that sucks ass, whys it bin so long?

Didnt think about 1 in one out just one out haha, glad I mentioned it now.

I'm a contractor in IT and I had a 4 week contact waiting for another job to start(which it did on monday). so that 4 week(march) contract has passed without me even seeing the contract and I'm meant to be paid weekly!!!!

Bonus is I get paid for the 4 weeks of march, plus one week of april, then the following week I get paid again

Only other thing I need to think about is what to cover the sub box and false floor in, I could do it in the normal carpet to match the car and parcel shelf. But I have a choice of literally anything you can think of! My mate is the supplier of materials to MJ interiors and all the other re trimming companys and has a huge warehouse full of anything and everything. And said I can choose anything I want.

Might go for orginial cow hide still witht he black and white bits and bits of fur on it

alcantara

Just got of the phone to my mate and sorted it out, I have a new idea of how I want it to be in the boot so if its done like this I'm going to get a VW badge stitched into it.

Anyone got anything more to say or any advise before I click the purchase button for this lot above?

Bass Mek I cant find that sub anywhere, only a 10 inch version, is that what you mean?

well search for a 12" one with the same Focal 27-V2 and if u cant find 1 he ment 10" lol

Any other amps I could use, I cant find those anywhere! Do they still sell them??

i'd be inclined to go for a 4 channel amp, probably a bit cheap than buying those 2, and simpler to wire and mount, those focal components will take stupid power so a power ful 4channel wont cause problems. MTX isnt really widely available on the net, have a good search.

I've ugraded the 3002 to the 4002.

Dunno if it was a good idea but its only £50 more

Not hugely necessary but it's definately gonna "ROCK THE HOUSE" now!!!

Spoke to the bloke this time mate, proper sound guy.

Obviously he is a salesman first for foremost which is probably why I have spent another 50quid, but he's going to talk me through what I need to power it all etc.

He was impressed when I gave him the list and said its going to sound proper bo.

I'm going on Friday to collect it all.

cool, let us know how it all goes.

i would have picked a Genesis amp over MTX for the 2ch all day long:

2 channel:

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=3006

mono amp (for sub):

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=3009


and for the components id go for:

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=3021

or

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=2983

(the RE's would be oh so perfect!)

and for the sub id go for the same as me.....

RE SE 12"

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=2962

that kit is absoloutely PERFECT and better than mine in every way!

fuck the mtx focal stuff and go for that....


for sound deadening get some fat-mat www.fatmat-uk.com - cheap as chips.

chris

its all opinions at the end of the day, mtx is really good value for what it is, and acky wants nice sq, which i think will be great from focal, focal subs are really nice musical and fresh bass IMO, anyway he's already bought the mtx/focal stuff so.....

so you're telling me Genesis amps matched with Resonant Engineering components and sub wont sound just as good ? if not better ?!!?

no not at all, but the focal/mtx setup is just a different setup, nothing wrong with either of them, its just opinions. ur realy argumentative arent u foxie!!!

yep

the mtx focal setup will sound mint though

fuck it I cancleled my order and re instated it with 1k's worth of sony explode subs and amps.....

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo






thats a fuck load of shit for £1000 id rather go to the farm and shovel some pig shit into my boot.....

What about a genesis amp to power both the sub and components?

what about: hes already ordered the inferior MTX amps........

I am joking dont worry.

Anyone got any advise as to what thickness of wood I should use for the box and false floor etc?

The guy in the shop said they will be more than good enough.

Only the test of time will prove that.

this thread is a bit hard to follow, the sarcasm etc. doesnt come accross on the interent.... oh, the confusion, yer just get like 6 x-plod subs, they're 1000watts!!!! weeeeey better than that shitty focal or wotever it si, thats like 300watts or sumthin, how shit!!

I could be wrong but i think its 12mm mdf usually used for boxes, but I'm not 100% as i have never made one.

cant really say what wood to use for your boot build as different wood for different jobs, ask a woodyard or something when you get round to making it.

12mm ???

18mm MDF for a box no less.

for false floor... whatever really... 12 or 15mm MDF will be adequate

foxie, if i ever see you, I'm gonna slap you in the face!!!

Yer, i used 15mm for a false floor, over time it bent.....so supposrt it well or use thicker.

Haha Love this thread!

Ok no worrys I'll speak to the guys in the shop anyway,

Think my idea for the build has gone down the bin cos of the sheer size of the amps.

Might make them covered totally with some cooling fans, then an automatically opening cover for when you need access to them.

It opens by passing your hand through a laser which when broken releases the magnet which holds the spring loaded cover. How I'm going to get that to work I'll never know!!!

Probably wont happen but it was something to think about when I was trying to sleep.whether thats dedication or pure sadness I dont know.

good idea that!!!

nice to see some very constructive replies in here

Acky, good decision to upgrade to the 4002. Always nice to have moer headroom at the front, I suggested the 3002 to keep it within budget but 4002 will definately be an improvement.

When it comes to the install theres a few things to bare in mind.

The majority of people tend to install components in the "traditional" way which is tweeter up near the A pillar and midbass in the OEM location in the door. The general reasoning behind this is to raise the sound stage to the base of the dashboard and provide a more direct image in front of you.

Whilst there is nothing majorly wrong with this, you will be enormously better off if you take the time to build a set of kick pods and place both the mids and tweeters in there. Raising the soundstage is all good and well but seperating the mid and tweeter by a big distance usually will make the system VERY weak tonally and THATS where the misconception lies. On a generic level kick pods can keep the soundstage just as high with proper aiming and auditioning but more importantly they provide a point source keeping the music cohesive and tonally accurate. They are gerenally more likely to feel more complete accross the frequency range without many gaps whereas split systems often have a hollow gap in the middle of the frequency range.

With regards to the focal components this is particularly important for another reason. Some people say that focal tweeters are slightly "harsh". I disagree! They can be a little bright but by having them in kick pods this increases path lengths (the distance from the drive unit to your ear) resulting in a more balanced sound. On top of this whilst the focal mids will run comfortably in the door, they will sound much more dynamic and punchy in a sealed kickpod.

The most important point that no one has made is pay attention to the install itself. I have heard installs with £700 worth of kit sound better than systems with £3K worth of kit simply due to the level of attention taken when the the system was built. I cannot begin to stress how important this is!! TAKE YOUR TIME AND DONT CUT CORNERS

sound deaden as much as you can afford, particularly in key areas (door panels, boot floor, boot lid etc)

I'm bit busy at the moment but will do a proper write up setting up and other bits when i get a mo. If you need anything else drop me a line

Ta

Faz

Bit busy and you write all that? Ha.

Cheers again mate.

When you get a min can you explain kick pods?? Is this just having both speaker and tweeter in the door???

When speaking to the guy fromt he shop he said you could spend 90quid on wires etc and have great sound, or you could spend 160 and have totaly superb sound. Is he right or just trying to get more money of me??

Example of Kick pods:



The two drive units in the kickwell in the little red fiberglass enclosure are in a kickpod. check out www.talkaudio.co.uk FAQ section to get an idea of how to go about building them. Also there are a lot of people on there who can provide some pretty decent advice.

As for the cabling, a decent 4 gauge kit will be enough although you will need a fused distribution block as you will be running two amplifiers.

What you will need in terms of cable and distribution:

1 Fused distribution block - either AFS or AGU fuse type (1 4gauge input, 2 8gauge outputs- anything more than this is a bonus as it allows for future expansion but not a requirement)
1 ANL Fuse Holder
5 meters 4Gauge power cable (from battery to fused distribution block)
2 meters 4Gauge earth cable (from chassis to amplifiers)
2 meters 8 gauge power cable (from fused distribution block to amps)
2 meters 12 gauge speaker wire (for subwoofer)
10 meters 16 gauge speaker wire (for front speakers)
2 x 5 meter RCA cables (from head unit to amps)
5 meter remote cable (from head unit to amps)

looks like a long list but you will find that you can get a wiring kit with most of the stuff that you need in it for about £50ish and then buy the fused block/fused holder seperately. £100 should MORE than be enough for this.

the following items combined would cover the whole lot:

fourth one down the page £54.25
http://www.nexxia.co.uk/CarInstallaccessor..._wiring_kit.htm

ANL fuse holder £9.99
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=1521

QX 12Gauge Speaker Cable - £1.29 a meter x 10 =£12.90
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/product_in...roducts_id=3412

Total = £77.14 and does everything you need with plenty of headroom.

What you have to remember with cable is not so much the shielding, but simply does it carry enough current to do what you want it to do.

bastard!!!

Cheers again Bass Mek!!!

I cant wait to get it all sorted now.

Do you think I'd be best of just buying the stuff you have advised there or wait till I go to the shop?

I've decided to go for simplicity for the build now, just the sub enclosure and a false floor hiding the amps and wires etc. I'm still going to try and keep it nice and tidy underneath the false floor. Just have to see how big the amps are when they arrive.

Cant see the pic of the kick pods or get on that forum at work so I'll wait till later, but fiberglass sounds a bit hardcore for me....

Another question...

Should I use any sort of sealent on the inside of the sub box? or do is not need to be that sealed?

Also if no slealant is needed, what about those rounded edge peices of wood you can get to put on the inside? So the air rebounds smoothly rahter than hitting a right angled corner and deflecting everywhere... or am I reading far to much into it?

Oh, also where can I get cooling fans? Any advise or are they pritty much the same.

The questions will keep flying out so sorry

are you really dead set against buying a standard square type box? theres nothing wrong with them and it's much easier than making one.
i think cad do fans.

Onyl reason I haven't looked at getting one is becuase I wasnt sure where my sub was going to be.

If it is really that much easier and worth it then I may well get one.

here i go again.......




oh rob u idiot.....a pre made box is usually very poor quality and usually only shitty 12 or 15mm MDF and a crap size..

for the sake of a few quid some silicone screws and mdf id rather build a box.... especially as hes spent like a grand on this setup..........

its 10% equiptment 90% install

ACKY: yes seal it as much as possible. airtight. make it out of 18mm MDF and dont worry about round bits of wood inside it..its not a ported box the air isnt going any where so wouldnt need it!