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Polo6n2blue

Engine oil pressure problem (Annoyed to death)

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Polo6n2blue

Hi,

 

It started a month ago, while driving oil pressure warning light flashes and beep 3 times and engine cuts off. Would not start back again, only after atleast few hours will start back. Tappets gone noisy too. So far, oil pressure switch changed and oil sump and pickup thoroughly cleaned and oil changed 3 times within a month. Still doing it. Fault codes read, nothing there apart from lambdar sensor and Basic engine settings but thats not related to the problem I am having.

Its a vw polo 6n2 1999 1.0. Anyone have any idea what to do next? Dont want to spend anymore on it, already have spent alot, including recoveries. Thinking of taking out oil pump now but would not take it mechanic will try myself but it looks complicated. Please help. Thanks in advance. 

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dvderlm

Any signs of oil leaking?

Any mayonnaise below oil filler?

 

What does an oil pressure gauge say the pressure is at 2500rpm with engine at operating temp?

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caretakerplus

The clue is in the noisy tappets - it is telling you that you definitely have low oil pressure - at least in the feed to the cylinder head.

 

You could certainly try fitting a (temporary?) oil pressure gauge and see what the actual pressure is, but that in itself won't cure the problem.

I have come across cases where bits have broken off of cheap aftermarket oil filters and partially blocked oilways - the feel to the cylinder head is smaller than at some other points, and so is easier to block.

Are there any 'knocking' noises which could indicate big end oil starvation? or 'rumbles' which could be main bearings suffering fro oil shortage?

 

If you wish to fit an oil pressure gauge, you can obtain all that is required from 'Vehicle Wiring Products' online catalogue.

 

Of course, noisy tappets on their own would not necessarily indicate low oil pressure, it is the fact that you have had low pressure warnings (which on their own, could simply indicate a faulty switch)

 

Regards

Edited by caretakerplus
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Polo6n2blue

No sign of leak. Some times mayo thingi going on oil cap but not always. Havent checked using pressure guage.

 

Only tappets noise no other kind of knocks. I know it because i have had broken tappets 2 years ago and changed them all. Engine is obviously running rough. Pressure switch changed. Since sump cleanup its doing it more now, would not go more than a mile.

 

What does having mayo on oil cap suggest?

 

Thanks for replying.

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caretakerplus

I shouldn't worry too much about the 'mayo thingy'  - This is caused by moist air combining with oil - more often than not, by condensation. It CAN be ONE of the signs of head gasket failure, but on its own, can generally be ignored (If you use the car mainly for short journeys,  it might be advisable to change the oil and filter more frequently)

 

Due to the fact that your tappets only became noisy at the same time as the oil pressure warning, I am more than convinced that there is insufficient oil pressure reaching the camshaft area.

 

Lack of oil leaks and even slightly low oil level in the sump, does NOT equate to correct oil pressure.

 

The good news is that, due to the fact that you do not have any expensive noises coming from the main bearings or big end bearings, the problem is almost certainly confined to the top of the engine.

 

I would certainly recommend checking the oil pressure, and would suggest that you don't use the car until the problem is resolved.

 

What do you mean by 'sump clean up'? - please don't tell me that you have used flushing oil in it. - Using this stuff frequently leads to blocked oilways.

 

Regards

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vwfan3

What is the mileage?  I am surprised the engine cuts off when the warning light comes ON.

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steveo3002

buy a oil pressure gauge and see what it says

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Polo6n2blue

Yes thats what I think that problem is with top bit of engine not pumping oil to the top.

 

Sump was removed and oil pickup strainer was thoroughly cleaned and new oil put in.

 

Mileage is just above 92k. I think its ecu forcing engine to cut off every time oil pressure warning comes up to stop any further damage to engine. After warning engine cuts off and would not start but after few hours it will. But it keeps doing it. Before it was after long journeys now its not even letting me go a mile.

 

I am not using the car anymore because i have had called my recovery for more than 5 times now, longest one from stafford where i was stuck on m6 thanks to this problem.

 

Thing is i only need this car to run for atleast 2 months. After that I am moving out of here to abroad. Just 2 months more left in my insurance policy too, dont want to get another car and policy for 2 months. And thats y dont want spend any more money on this one. Stuck in between, its very annoying.

 

Clearing top of engine oilways a big job? 

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Polo6n2blue

Took rocker cover off. Looks like oil coming through. Fresh new oil on tappets. 

 

But one tappet was easily pushing down using finger, while others were not. Is that a sign of broken tappet? No sign of tappet damage from top. But this only solves the noisy tappet problem not the oil pressure one.

InShot_20180730_223449210-1440x1440.jpg

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dvderlm

Sorry I have solid lifters, don't know about these hydraulic tappet  things, but if a valve is staying closed, the engine is not going to run very well.

Yes, fairly big DIY job. Disconnect everything from head, cylinder head off,  dismantle head, clean head

https://www.wikihow.com/Clean-Engine-Cylinder-Heads

new head bolts, new head gasket and valve stem seals, camshaft seals (probably whole head gasket kit) .

Preferably new cambelt and waterrpump

 

You might be able to pay someone else to just clean and light skim the head if you can dismantle and refit valves, seals, springs, collets, camshaft, pulley 

Need a valve spring compressor  and extreme patience for putting the valve collets back.

.

You might be able to unblock the passageway to the tappet that is not pressurising using fishing line or very thin brush

https://www.frost.co.uk/engine-brush-set.html without the full removal actions above, 

BUT the loosened blockage may spread. You don't want anything to get stuck or break off. I assume there'll be a small hole in the depression a hydraulic lifter sits.

I'm only suggesting this because you don't have much to lose by trying in your remaining time.  I've never tried this and it could go wrong.

Edited by dvderlm
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nige8021

What engine code doe you have ? as that engine in the pictures is not one fitted to a 6N2 ??

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Polo6n2blue

I think i will not try doing it myself. But appreciate all the help and links you provided.

 

Well spotted, I was under the impression that my car being late 99 model is 6n2. In fact its 6N1 and engine code is AER. Never bothered to look at the sticker on service book. Car itself have many stickers at various places mentioning 6N2, thats y i thought its 6N2.

 

Anyway i have spoken to a mechanic whos friend in London, he says engine should not cut off because of that oil pressure warning. He suggests ECU is corrupted.

 

I have bought a pressure testing guage. What pressure values are normal?

 

Is 6N1 ecu easily replaceabale without any kind of coding? I can get one for £20 and replace myself. 

 

Thanks.

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dvderlm

I get around 3bar at 2500rpm - my engine and oil pump has done ~220,000 miles.

 

The VAG. sensors are usually speced to warn for below  0.3 bar at idle and 1.8bar  at 2000rom

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nige8021

The oil pressure is not monitored by the ECU the main cause for cutting out is the Hall sensor in the distributor.

 

Have you had the fault codes read ? as that might give a better idea of where the fault is coming from, you'll need a VAG specific code reader as it is pre OBDll

 

 

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dvderlm

If an inlet valve doesn't open, cause tappet not moving it enough, won't the ECU see that as misfire event, or lean condition at lambda?

That could give the fault code for lambda you mention. 

 

Someone else will answer about coding I'm sure.

 

 

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dvderlm

First post also mentions 'Basic settings' but surely that's about the ECU adapting fuel trim to the car engine such as Throttle Position Sensor. If those are out of bounds how can ECU control limp mode?

http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/b-settings.php

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Polo6n2blue

Well tried the pressure test with no luck. 

 

Initially got 5 bars at start and increased with revs. But engine cut off again after 10 mnts so could not test it for warm engine. But in those 10 mnts pressure dropped to 4 bars at the end and pressure clock started jumping between 3 and 4 bars just moments ago engine cut off.

 

Now will try again tomorrow morning. Tappets are less noisy but thats what they have been doing, sometimes will sound like they are dry as fk but then sometimes sounds like new.

 

I have specially bought a VAG diagnostic obd reader made specificaly for VW and likes of it. The first time i read codes it gave lambdar and basic engine settings. Cleared them but engine basic settings will come back after few days but lambdar never came back. Even right now after engine cut off tried but no codes at all. The code reader has the feature to adapt throttle body which i have done many times bit that has no effects on current problem. 

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dvderlm

Well done with gauge!

 Measurements with cold oil are not very useful. I get over 6bar with cold engine, but it drops as engine warms until its about 1 bar at idle when fully hot - about 5 miles driving in this weather.

 

Can you let it idle with bonnet closed tomorrow, restart when it cuts out?

Keep going until temp gauge nearer middle (90?) then see what you get.

 

Electric or mechanical/capillary device?

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Polo6n2blue

Yes i will try again tomorrow. I hope engine will last untill its warm enough for correct reading.

IMAG1711-2268x3024.jpg

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Polo6n2blue

Once engine cuts off cant restart straight away, it would not. Only after few hours. Thats y i gave up today.

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nige8021

That is classic Hall sensor failure 

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dvderlm

Yes indeed. That would match the sudden jumping around 3 and 4

bar with ignition event dropping out as failing Hall sensor signal dies away when warm

Edited by dvderlm
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Polo6n2blue

What other names are used for hall sensor? Where its located? Inside distributor? Means I need a new distributor? This car had a new distributor 2 years ago. Or is it camshaft sensor? 

 

Thanks

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dvderlm

Hall sender, Hallgeber (German).

Cam rotation sensor.

It's in the distributor. Sometimes oil gets past an o-ring and heats them up, or destroys the insulating wires and shorts the contacts. Sometimes just plain heat kills the magnet.

 

 

Edited by dvderlm
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Polo6n2blue

I have tried finding online. Only option i m getting is to change the whole distributor. Should i go for it?

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