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Eviljohn

Mk2 polo non starter

25 posts in this topic

Hi polo people. Hope you're all very well indeed. Looking for some guidance on my '83, 1043 breadvan if anyone can give any. Tried to start her up the other day. Turns over just fine, doesn't catch. I noticed the fuel filter was empty. Checked the filler cap for negative pressure, no hiss when i undid that. Got hold of a new fuel pump, (ebay,) fitted that, no difference. Still just turns over doesn't start. I did take the inlet pipe off just before the new pump and put my finger over the end to see if it was sucking and it wasn't. No idea if that is normal, seemed like a good idea to try it. Had a look under the car, can't see any puddles or obvious leaks. Fuel gague says there is fuel in the tank. I still have the pump i took off. Cam belt looks intact and not slack but i didn't actually take the cover off to check yet. Is there anything else i can check? Carb is a weber, had it refurbed couple hundred miles ago. Thank you for stopping by and any guidance you can give me. Take it easy.

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If the old pump didn't 'suck', when it was on the engine (1) Try it again now that you have removed it (2) If it works now, you really must check that the camshaft is rotating!

You could connect a short length of PETROL hose to the inlet of the new pump, submerse the other end in a small container (not plastic) of petrol and see if that picks up IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA NOT TO SMOKE WHILST YOU DO THIS !!!

There is JUST a chance that the pipe to the carburettor is blocked, or the needle valve in the carb is jammed shut- that in itself would prevent the pump from 'sucking.'

You could also try 'dribbling' some petrol into the carburettor air intake as the starter is being operated - if it fires, the problem is definitely lack of petrol.

 

Requirements for an engine to run: (1) Supply of petrol to the ENGINE (2) Supply of air (3) Compression (4) Correctly timed spark.

 

Regards

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Cool. I have a spare bit of fuel hose. I'll try that. Nearly started with a squirt of easy start the other day, (have since stopped using it as someone told me it actually damages the engine.)

Thanks dude.

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Kay. Did some checks today:

Took the cam belt cover off while i tried to start her up. Cam belt and whatever the wheel is called both went round. 

Took the top off the carb, checked the needle and the float. Chamber was empty, needle seems to move freely. 

Took the inlet fuel pipe off the new pump, sucked on it, got fuel in the filter and a s**tty taste in my mouth. Haven't had chance to take the cam cover off to see how the fuel pump lines up. 

If the cam belt turns when i try to start, does that rule out an issue with the camshaft? 

Do the checks i've done point towards the issue being the fuel pump?

Thanks for stopping by and any guiidance you can give. Take it easy.

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Posted (edited)

odd. could not see what i was replying too with this new layout!

maybe lost internet connection during edit...

 

Empty carburettor chamber says fuel pump if needle valve and float and fuel line okay.

 

The camshaft pulley turning in synch with the crankshaft pulley, should mean the pistons are moving up and down and the cam lobe is pushing the fuel pump rod. 

If you turn the crankshaft clockwise with a socket on the pulley bolt through the offside wing access hole you should feel the resistance of compression stroke with sparkplugs in as valves close. 

So there's only spark at the right time which if you have not disturbed distributor or moved plug leads should be the same.

 

 

Don't drink petrol.

Edited by dvderlm

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Have not moved dizzy or leads. 

Next chance i get i'm looking to take the cam cover off to see how the camshaft and fuel pump mate up. If they aren't meeting up properly, for whatever reason, that'll be the issue. 

Also looking to check return line for blockage. 

Pump i had in place was donated. Think it came off an early golf. No idea which one. Was having running issues at the time and a local mechanic that was giving me guidance said i could try replacing the stock pump with that one to see if that sorted it. Pump didn't make any difference at the time. 

New pump is off ebay.

Could the wrong pump, as in one that was meant for a similar car but not this actual car, have done something to damage/wear down the camshaft lobe it was mated up to?

If so, could it be the way i fitted either the donated fuel pump or the new fuel pump? 

Thanks again for stopping by and the guidance. As always, much appreciated and invaluable. 

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Also, would a blockage in the return pipe cause enough pressure to stop the pump from pumping on startup?

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Posted (edited)

No, return line blockage would only have an effect once carburettor float chamber filled and needle valve shut off the flow.

You'd need something catastrophic to wear down the pump lobe, it's more if an eccentric circle, so there's no sudden change, unlike a valve lobe's steep ramps.

 

I used a tyre pump to clear the fuel lines. Should be able to hear it bubbling in the tank (over noise of the pump)

 

Are the fuel lines old and covered in cloth braid...?

Wipe them with a tissue to see if there's a hidden leak (especially near any clips) exposed by disturbing their route.

Edited by dvderlm

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That rules out return line blockage then. Probly worth checking anyway just to see how it is. 

All fuel lines in the engine bay are new. Couple of sections have fabric overbraid but i'm looking to change that for plain fuel hose when i get to it, so i can see any leaks easier

Fuel line running from the fuel tank and return line running parralel are both green plastic until they hit the bay. Then it's the fuel lines i've put in. Braided or otherwise.

No idea what the green plastic ones are made from. They were on the car when i got her. Pretty much covered in road scuzz under the car. But no apparent leaks. No puddles where i've parked, no wet spots in the scuzz. 

Did you just disconnect your fuel line from the fuel pump, hook it up yo your foot pump and pump away to clear and scuzz?

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yes disconnected from pump, pushed an adaptor for paddling pool in the tube and turned on the electric pump.

Doubt you'll get a foot pump hose to reach as you want to keep the open pipe above the fuel level in tank normally.

 

 

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If you dribble a bit of fuel down carb throat will it fire?

With  easystart it's easy to get the wrong idea about the state of the carburettor mount seal.cause you have to keep  the throttle plate opened. 

Wondering whether there's a vacuum leak, carb base mount is typical weak point.

 

Concentrate on getting the carb chamber filling.

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Haven't tried manually filling carb yet. Will do though. No idea about the carb mount. Worth checkin out though. Thanks for that.

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Turns put there's a split in the carb mount. Fairly decent sized split. Had chance to get under the bonnet today. Was going to check fuel return line for blockage. Just leaned the carb back gently and i could see the front mounting bolt that's meant to be underneath/inside the mount. Split is literally just a split, wouldn't have spotted it if i hadn't moved the carb. But it's about 1cm in length. Does that fit with empty float chamber and fuel pump not pumping?

I have a new one on the way. Once fitted, i'll try it with the old fuel pump first and see how that goes. 

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That should sort it. Go gentle on the mounting bolts. Some rubber seems more prone to splitting.

 

Engine  cranking should fill the bowl, but it fills faster at 950rpm idle (or higher on choke) than 250rpm crank speed

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Cool. I'll get that in place when it arrives and see what happens. I'll put the old fuel pump back on first to see if that actually still works. 

Thanks for your help so far.

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Mount that turned up was too small for inlet manifold. Properly struggling to find another one. I had already planned to put bike carbs on this summer and actually have most of the parts i need already. I have someone happy to help me do it but i may have to get the car to them. If i patched the leaky mount with either gun gum or a gasket maker, would that work just to make that one trip? The leak is literally just a line along a seam. Can't see it just looking at the mount on it's own. The trip would be 121 miles on motorway and A roads. Would that hold?

 

 

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patch it with pu sealer /tiger seal ....toolstation /ebay sell it , imagine it will last as a temp repair if you clean it well 

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Have you got breakdown cover? Do a short trip with the temp repair first  - like a circle not more than 2 miles from home. 

Engine has suction of 40 Hoovers (or 50 EU vacuum cleaners)

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I have fully comprehensive rac cover. That's my current plan B if i patch this leak and it stitches me up on the way to getting fixed. Can get a tow the rest of the way. 

I've put some wynns black rtv on it and i'm leaving it to cure. If it works well enough to get her started, that's awesome. If it holds for the road trip, even better. But if i take her for a little run and the wynns fails, it's easy enough to take it off and put something else there instead. Tiger/pu seal. 

Thanks for the advice so far chaps. I'll be back with results. Have a great weekend.

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Kay. Had a chance to tinker this morning. On Friday night i put some wynns black on top of the carb mount to seal the split and left it to cure, which it did. Yesterday, it crossed my mind that where the split is, unless it's bigger than it looks underneath, it shouldn't really be an issue as the split was on top of one of the bolt holes that connect the carb onto the mount, pretty much a seperate hole from the inlet opening. Anyhoo, by then wynns had cured. I cleaned mating faces of carb, carb mount and inlet manifold. Using hylomar blue to seal, put them all back together. 

While the hylomar was curing, i checked over the fuel hose in the bay again. Still had some cotton braided stuff but as it looked tired and cracked on the ends, switched that out for new, non-braided. Also put new fuel filter in. Checked that new fuel pump was sucking, which it was. Once all was back in place and secured, fired her up. Fuel filter filled with fuel, few tries later, she fired up just fine. So it was either leaky carb mount, blocked fuel filter or shitty fuel hose that was the culprit. 

I can now keep an eye on fuel lines better with non-braided hoses.

Fuel pump should be fine as it's new. 

As is fuel filter.

Carb mount and carb will be going soon anyway as i have bike carbs lined up to go on very soon. 

Thank you for your guidance. For now she is alive and running again. Haven't taken her for a long run yet as i haven't got chance to for a couple of days. Will report back if any issues arise. Won't go very far, just in case it is the mount as i need that to hold for the journey to get bike carbs fitted.

Thanks again polo people. Take it easy.

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So i managed to take the beige beast for a run this morning. Ran just fine. Not sure if it was the fuel lines or carb mount that was the issue. Will come back with any info so any one else can compare. 

Thanks again for your help peoples. 

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Carb mount.

 

You can leak petrol - for a short period - you can't leak air. 

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Most likely. Had it before and it fits symptoms. Only reason i considered other possibilities was the position of the split in the carb mount and the state of the ends of some of the fuel lines. But yeah. Carb mount is most likely suspect. Will be going next week anyway as i have all the bits ready for bike carbs. Will have a little shufty then to see if i can figure it out for sure.

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Search for beige beast polo on youtube.

On ‎27‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 10:15, Eviljohn said:

So i managed to take the beige beast for a run this morning. Ran just fine. Not sure if it was the fuel lines or carb mount that was the issue. Will come back with any info so any one else can compare. 

Thanks again for your help peoples. 

 

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Dude, i've seen that! G40 innards in a bready. Would love to do similar at some point. 

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