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Hi all, been lurking on here for a while but never made an account. recently bought my first car, a p reg 1.4 cl (8v) with the Openair roof. Absolutely love it but have already caught the bug in terms of modding. Been reading up about carbs (seems less daunting than a 16v) to give it some more oomph but there’s one thing I’m not clear on. How does the ignition work when efi and stock throttle body etc is gone? Seen some websites saying I can run off stock distributor but lots of talk on here about mk2 wiring? Fairly new to it all but sort of mechanically minded so just looking for some explanation maybe.

sorry for the long post and thanks in advance to anyone who bothers to read this and help a newb out!! ?

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dvderlm

A few choices.

  1. Tci-h volkswagen system as used on mk2 polo and golf. Hall sender at distributor sends signal of engine speed, electronic box connects to coil and Hall sender gives electronic ignition with correct dwell. Super easy fit. Scrapyard availability (in theory).
  2. Aldon Amethyst box, can run off same Hall Sender and is mappable. There's a version that uses manifold vacuum/pressure and a version that uses throttle position sensor to work out engine load. Former has normally aspirated and boost versions - the boost version allows some limited advance control in non-boost.Has a soft cut rev limiter.
  3. A nodiz which uses a 36-1 trigger wheel at crank pulley or alternator pulley?
  4. A megajolt - ditto.
  5. A megasquirt and just use the spark control. Think there's a simple circuit to make it trigger from Hall sender

Vacuum advance -  is economy device for low to mid load drivability.

 

There's others like Dutch EFignition or for more money like MSD. Work out what you might want to do next as the controller might outlive the engine/car.

 

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Ah thankyou. So In theory I’d only need to buy the little black tci box? Or are you saying I need a mk2 dizzy and coil as well.

Does the vacuum feed come out of the servo line on the manifold or would I need to add a balanced system for each cylinder? Wayyy too cold to go out and start digging round my engine!

cheers

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dvderlm

What engine code?

Post a picture of current distributor and plugs without freezing to death.

Do you have coil on plug? Thought that was only modern 16v.

 

Yes tci-h and coil and its loom, with a Hall sender distributor.

 

If you want vac advance then a feed from each runner (or take off point on some carbs) feeding a small accumulator - i use an inline fuel filter (rather confused one breakdown chap) 

and maybe a pulse suppressor (fish tank valve nearly works or the real thing https://www.dellorto.co.uk/shop/vw-carburettor-kits-parts/vw-aircooled-manifolds-linkages-parts/other-parts-vw-aircooled-manifolds-linkages-parts/anti-pulse-valve-vacuum/) going to vac port on the aftermarket box.

 

See this conversion from Ducellier to Bosch 124

https://www.clubpolo.co.uk/topic/328957-electronic-ignition-swap/?do=findComment&comment=2720947

 

Edited by dvderlm
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I think it’s APQ. Will try and send pics later today. Am I right in thinking that “hall sender distributor” is just the diz cap for the the mk2 coil or is it something different entirely? 

Lastly What happens if I don’t use vac advance? Will it Drop in fuel efficiency or speed? I know it’s fairly commonly left out

 

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dvderlm

I'll have to lookup APQ, not heard of that. Dizzy will have an electrical connector out of the side with 3 pins for the Hall sender. Might be marked +0-.

 

Without vac advance you'll lose some low to mid efficiency/economy. Bike slide carbs will compensate. Top end will be the same as when throttle plates are wide open there nearly no vacuum .. bowl in piston advance limit is about 36 degrees.

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dvderlm

Can't see a dizzy Hall sender on a youtube vid of a poorly APQ. Maybe it has a crank position sensor?

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 All there is coming out of the dizzy is the usual four ht leads and the one going to the coil pack, and some kind of sensor which I circled. Can’t find what this is in the service manual? 

Would it be easier/possible to keep the stock efi and run some carbs as throttle bodies instead? Hopefully right In thinking you’d get similar performance gains?

51EA1543-BA17-43F6-818B-4F0ECFBB0FF4.jpeg

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nige8021

That is the hall sender,

There would be nothing stopping you retaining the standard ECU for just the spark side of things you would need to refit the MAP/IAT sensor to give you an effective vacuum advance/retard

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Thanks nige, you talking about for carbs or efi? I assumed the advance worked off the throttle potentiometer. Could It be as simple as just whacking the MAP sensor onto a carb trumpet or something?

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nige8021

I was thinking about using bike carbs with the standard ECU running the ignition side of things, but as I said you'd need the MAP/IAT sensor to give the advance/retard signals for the ECU & possibly a throttle pedal position sensor, you could fit the original MAP sensor in the inlet manifold after one of the carbs not sure on the throttle position sensor as that's internal to the original throttle body, but for pure simplicity the MK2 ignition system would be the proven way to go

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