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Jonno500

Non starting 1.0 mk2 breadvan

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Jonno500

Hi guys,

 

Tearing my hair out with my 1.0 1990 mk2 breadvan, HZ engine code

 

When I first purchased it it needed some TLC and had new

 

Filters,

fuel tank,

fuel pump,

distributor

rotor arm

ht leads

battery

And brakes

 

After almost a year it started cutting out when stopping at a junction or heavy braking. I got fed up with it and left it on the drive way and bought a new car. 

 

Fast forward a couple of years years and I want to restore it. Mostly to learn, possibly to sell after not quite sure yet.

 

However, on trying to start the engine with new fuel it refused.

 

Since then I have changed

 

leads

plugs

ignition coil

carburettor flange

 

The distributor and rotor arm still look ok.

 

I have 12v at ignition coil with ignition turned on and if I pour petrol/spray carb cleaner into carb it will start for a few seconds then die out.

 

Whilst the carb was off I tried my best to clean it without doing a full service. I have also blown through the needles with a compressor.

 

has anyone got any ideas what the issue could be? 

 

Im getting close to torching it 🔥😡

 

many thanks in advance if you can can help diagnose my problem. ☺️

 

 

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dvderlm

Starts then  dies with fresh fuel?

 

died when braking.

 

Most likely rubber base mount vacuum leak but you changed that (carb flange).

 

 

less likely 

fuel pump bust or fuel lines clogged with rusty crud.

Ethanol phase separation water in tank.

(siphon it from below then add isopropyl alcohol)

 

needle valve blocked

float stuck on side wall

 

 

Edited by dvderlm

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Jonno500
12 minutes ago, dvderlm said:

Starts then  dies with fresh fuel?

 

died when braking.

 

Most likely rubber base mount vacuum leak but you changed that (carb flange).

 

 

less likely 

fuel pump bust or fuel lines clogged with rusty crud.

Ethanol phase separation water in tank.

(siphon it from below then add isopropyl alcohol)

 

needle valve blocked

float stuck on side wall

 

 

 

Thanks for your reply

 

It only starts if I put fresh fuel or carb cleaner into the carb from the top. Other than that it just doesn’t want to fire up.

 

I Forgot to mention I took the fuel line off at the carb after the fuel pump and it pumps well into a water bottle.

I can blow through the needle valve and when I took the carb apart the float moved but there only a small amount of fuel in the float chamber I’d say between a quarter full and half way.

 

I've also blown through the fuel lines with a bicycle pump.

 

I have a pierburg 1b carb, could it be something as simple as fuel/air mix? 

 

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dvderlm

could be.   Take  a spark plug out if it's covered in carbon  then rich, if wet then not igniting, if shiny white too lean.

 

This is with choke flap nearly closed, right?

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dvderlm

top and bottom of carb must seal well, was the gasket paper damaged anywhere.

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Jonno500

The old spark plugs were full of carbon and one in what I would guess was number four? Furthest right was wet

 

is the choke flap the bit on the top of the carb? I have an auto choke I believe

1E842A9B-A96C-4094-913E-5DDF11F7D332.jpeg

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Jonno500

Here’s a pic of the gasket between the two halves of the carb

061978B8-6C13-41D1-81D4-F4D82F87906F.jpeg

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dvderlm

Yes brass plate with 51 on is choke flap. 

it's paper gaskets that tear, rubber should be fine and looks okay.

 

Fuel is a bit low if pump had just operated. 

I'd expect 1/3 to 1/2 way up the float well.

 

Find the proper float height(droop) Fuel level affects mixture.  lotus and simca even vary it for similar engine...

 

Clean the spark plug  carbon off with a mini blowtorch?

 

Get a Gunson colortune to set mixture perfect when it is idling.

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dvderlm

auto-choke might be stiff...

does it have a heater wire to overcome inertia and power

 

other end of earth wire connected to block

 

idle cutoff solenoid stopped working.  if it has one

 

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caretakerplus

The fact that it runs when you put petrol or carb cleaner in the top of the carburettor means that the ignition side is working, at least reasonably well.

 

As said above, that fuel height looks well down and it is important that it is set correctly - too low and you will have fuel starvation, too high and fuel will drip into the manifold.

I no longer have a manual for your model, but if you (or someone on the forum) has one, check for the correct setting.

You mention yourself that there wasn't much fuel in the float chamber, but do remember that the volume if the float takes up a fair space, so if the float chamber was full to the top (say) and the carb top put back on, fuel would be displaced into the manifold (AKA Archimedes)

You could try putting petrol on the float chamber, say about 1/3 full, replacing the top and seeing if the engine would start, this would give you an idea if you were on the right track.

 

Don't worry too much about the adjustment of the choke flap at this stage, the correct adjustment  IS important, but as long as the flap is closed when the engine is cold, is good enough for now.

 

One common problem, is that the slow running jet (pilot jet or idle jet - whichever you care to call it) easily becomes blocked, due mainly to it being the smallest jet in the carb. Fortunately, being right at the top, it is easy enough to get to.

 

It is a fairly common thing to find that the 'flexible' rubber carb mounting has split or broken up, when this happens, air is drawn in below the carb - a definite no-no.

 

I have a morbid fear with these carbs, that the engine will 'swallow' one of those three nuts that holds the air cleaner in place, so  before you replace the air cleaner, check that those three Nylock nuts actually grip the studs - if not, fit new Nylock nuts or apply ONE drop of Thread Lock solution - do the same to any of the studs if they should come out.

 

Some people dislike Mr Pierburg's carburettor, but, providing that the throttle spindle is not worn and they are set up correctly, I quite like them.

 

Regards

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Jonno500

Many thanks for your help so far guys.

 

Today I have bypassed everything between filter and carb (including the little filter in the inlet pipe that I didn’t know was there till today) and still no joy. 

 

However I rang a local mechanic who advised me the same as above that the carb and ignition seems to be working fine as it runs with fuel directly into the carb and he believes it’s a fuel pump issue. 

 

He didn't come out and look at the car just advised me over the phone to try and save me money which was very nice of him.

 

I found my old fuel pump which was replaced exactly four years ago today and refit that and cranked the car over into a jug and the squirt was a lot bigger and more powerful than the “newer” pump I had on before.

 

so my next step is to purchase a new pump and try that. 

 

Fingers crossed it works ill keep you all updated. 🙂🤞🏻

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Jonno500

Hi again guys just fitted the new pump and still no joy.... 😞

 

took the return fuel line off the top of the swirl pot when cranking the engine and it seems like fuel is going straight back to the tank.

 

I then reconnected the return line and took the fuel line off at the carb where the little inside filter sits and fuel comes out there too.

 

what is going on?

 

I've also bought a Haynes book for my car but it has info for a solex carb 😕

 

im really beginning to think this is a carb issue as I’ve almost changed everything else

Edited by Jonno500

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steveo3002

have you confirmed theres a spark ...as in seen it yourself not a mechanic said something ?

 

does it splutter /make any attempt to try and fire at all?

 

if yes to the spark...dribble a bit of petrol in the carb while a helper cranks it ...or easy start  , if theres a spark it ough to try and start

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Jonno500

Yes there is a spark at each of the plugs and it starts if I pour fuel into the carb until the fuel runs out

 

without me putting fuel directly into the top of the carb it doesn’t even splutter no.

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steveo3002

sounds like pump then

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Jonno500

I’ve literally just installed a new one.

 

third one for this car.

original one was replaced in 2015

then replaced again today

Edited by Jonno500

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Jonno500

Is there anyone out there that could help me with checking to see if my float valve is working ok?

 

when I take the top off the carb and move the float it seems to move easily and the little pin its connected to moves with it.

 

I'm becoming certain that the fuel is not getting into the float chamber like it should, I've changed the entire ignition line, and now the fuel pump.

Fuel and ignition work all the way up to the carb.

 

I'm just stuck as to what happens in the carb. and its very hard to find anything about the pierburg 1b 

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Jonno500

I’ve taken the carb apart again.....

 

tried to blow through the pipe that the fuel goes in (the one with the little filter) and I can’t blow through it with the float lowered or raised I think this is the problem but how do I fix it?

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dvderlm

fit a new needle valve and washer/o-ring?

 

Take top off the carb, push the hinge rod for float carefully horizontally through tang of float..

Probably 10mm box spanner.

To undo the needle valve.

 

Some Weber have a tiny filter from inlet to needle valve. A big brass nut gives access.

Maybe crud in that?

Or pipes to it.

 

Try Dellorto.co.uk or Carburettor Hospital or Gower & Lee for new needle valve. Maybe it is same as other more common Webers or Pierburgs.

 

www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/1B3type.html  part 5.

 

 

Edited by dvderlm

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Jonno500

Thanks dvd

 

I managed to get the filter out spray some carb cleaner and blow a compressor through it it’s all back on now but still not joy even in my desperation I’ve changed the fuel filter dizzy cap and rotor arm again just to be safe.... still no joy I’ll have to find a new needle valve and o ring from somewhere and give that a go. 

 

Im beginning to wonder why I didn’t call the scrap man.

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Jonno500

IT STARTS 😊😊😊😊

 

managed to take the needle valve out (thanks dvd)

 

cleaned it and put it back in and it starts but  now it won’t idle I feel so close!!!!!

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Jonno500

Adjusted the throttle cable and it idles fine yay 😃😃😃

 

now to get on with the rest of it

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clinning

Nice one lad!! 👍 Saved another polo.

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dvderlm

woohoo!

 

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