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prankstar2003

MS3 and Trigger Wheels

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prankstar2003

Those who follow my posts will know I've been building and collecting parts for a turbo. I've now got some serious time to devote to the old girl with lost of upgrades and hopefully a respray early next year. 

 

Anyway, the engine will be a hybrid of several but essentially a 1.4 using an ABD block running MS3. I've been looking at trigger wheel options and lots of people seem to be going with welding a trigger wheel to the crank somehow and running EDIS (Ford). However I've been looking at OEM options and stumbled across the AVY integrated trigger wheel and crank seal for the gearbox end. Why don't people use this? The seller I have found in Germany claims it would fit a PY block which are very similar to the ABD blocks. Is it people don't know about these or is there some other issue? Seems silly to me to fanny about welding trigger wheels and wiring sensors onto hooky brackets when there is a neat OEM solution available.

 

Enlighten me

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steveo3002

guess its hassle for those that have the engine fitted already

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dvderlm

sound a right bugger to fit

 

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damunk

this was on afh but used bracket trigger-wheels,com supplied me and cut it to bits.

 

ckupolo1.png

 

 

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prankstar2003
9 hours ago, dvderlm said:

sound a right bugger to fit

 

 

The engine is apart so I'm not bothered about it being hard to fit, just so long as it will. I now need to find the parts. Different listing seem to show the trigger wheel within the seal housing whilst others don't.

 

Any other info?

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dvderlm

Image

has part number.  032103173a ?

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prankstar2003

What engine is this please?

 

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dvderlm

1.6 Brazil Golf or Gol ??

 

www.kakapart.com/search/defaultsearch/030103173

says Polo 6n1 1.6 gti

Edited by dvderlm

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prankstar2003

That's not the part number although the part looks similar. Seems VW used the 6n2 GTI seal across a huge range of engines.

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dvderlm

oops, I thought first 3 numbers are VW model but not for nuts and bolts

052 mk2 polo

030 mk2f polo

020  mk2 golf

 

032 ?

 

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prankstar2003

030 103 171 K

 

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PHIL SWARBRICK

I put the trigger wheel on the pulley end on an adapter that bolts to the 4 holes that the pulley normally bolts to. There is enough clearance in the adapter for the crank bolt that holds on the cam belt pulley. The alternator pulley has been narrowed by about 4 mm so the flange has now gone. When the trigger wheel bolts up it supports the pulley and is hard up against it. The trigger wheel came from EFI co.uk. I am running MS 3/3X which gives sequential injection and fully programmable ignition. The ignition will be wasted spark so the distributor will only supply a cam signal. Let me know if you have any MS questions and I will attempt to answer them.

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prankstar2003

Thanks for the info Phil.

 

I don't really want to use a bolt-to trigger wheel as I want a factory looking install and not worry about making brackets and stuff

 

I mis-identified my MS and its MS2 with V3 mainboard. Still sufficient for what I need. I won't be using full sequential to begin with so I assume I can bin the distributor off. This is my ideal solution as the dizzy I have doesn't have a hall sender (it's an old meh head)

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PHIL SWARBRICK

My understanding is that it's only MS 3/3x which will give you full sequential but one of the other MSs give you partial sequential whatever that means. Is it possible to fit a later hall effect distributor to the mech head? Good luck with the clutch end trigger wheel. Please let me know if it fits well because it's something that I may consider for the future on my MN block. If you have problems with your MS there is a lot of support on their forum. Every question I have ever asked is answered very quickly. Although their advice when I inquired about the possibility of having different maps one response was that I should be more careful on the accelerator!! So I am hoping to have 2 turbo boost tables which I will switch from the dashboard. One table will have higher boost. It's not entirely clear how many signals are necessary from the cam but mine is set up so one signal gets to the MS every two revolutions of the crank. Is that enough, I don't know.

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prankstar2003

If i cant get full sequential on MS2 then I won't bother. You can't fit a later dizzy but the GK dizzy and some Saab and Seat ones can be used. I'd rather bin it and go wasted spark.

 

I'm on their forum and people have been helpful. I'll let you know about the crank seal/trigger wheel. It's a fiddly job as the seal has to go on perfectly square and in exactly the right place for fear of damaging the teflon seal and getting the timing perfect. May be a job for my local dealership

 

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PHIL SWARBRICK

I think fully sequential doesn't gain much other than each cylinder can be trimmed to the exact same exhaust gas temperature (EGT) to balance fuel mixtures which means a thermocouple to each exhaust port has to be fitted. Wasted spark is simple and there is not a lot to go wrong. Coil on plugs (COP) are too expensive. What is to gained by spending all that money? My trigger wheel is a 36 missing tooth. The main reason, I have sequential injection is that it also gives full ignition control which can be set up to work with the turbo boost. I have taken the decision to get an adjustable wastegate actuator which allows the spring to be changed that keeps the wastegate closed and I think probably works better with the the boost control in MS. I wish you all the luck with your trigger wheel set up. Do you know where you are buying it from? A good quality hydraulic press should get your seal in square. Does it go into the aluminium housing first before it's bolted to the block? I saw photos on Google years a go of your intended set up but never followed it up presuming it wouldn't fit a Mk2 block.

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prankstar2003

I think the tool is to get the seal over the crank, so a press is going to be a challenge. 

 

How does the sequential help with the turbo ignition?

 

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