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MK2 Control arm is stuck on Anti roll bar


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bastibum

Hi

 

Last week you guys helped  me get the old control arm connected to the suspension hub again after replacing the cv joint. I planned on replacing the control arm today.
Getting the bolts off was easy. But the control arm won't come off the anti roll bar bolt. All I can move is the old bushings. Any tips?

 

cheers,

bastibum

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No I went with your method, so bolting on at the front as the last step. Using a racthet strap to tension the arb worked really well! And then with a long bar to lever the mounts into place at the fro

its not too bad if theres movement , lash some penetrating oil on it and give it a good whack ,, some of the bushes will rust onto the bolt so bad theyre almost permanent ...good reason to apply  a da

Aha. I believe I have a pre August '84 as well. Engine code GL. After some digging on the internet I found out that the ends should face up when you lay the arb on the ground, so it was never on upsid

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steveo3002

guessing the bushing sleeve is rusted to the arb?  will the arm not rotate if you try?

 

i think violence is the answer....id start with a decent size hammer and see if moves , if not it will need cutting off 

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bastibum

Yeah the arm will rotate a bit  if I apply enough pressure. But the sleeve is too tight on there, no forward or backward movement on the bolt.   I'll get violent with it next time.

Edited by bastibum
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steveo3002

its not too bad if theres movement , lash some penetrating oil on it and give it a good whack ,, some of the bushes will rust onto the bolt so bad theyre almost permanent ...good reason to apply  a dab of copper grease when you assemble

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bastibum

It has come off! Indeed some wd40, a smack with the hammer and a lot of wiggling did the trick. Anybody got a trick for reinstalling it? Haynes doesn't give any good instructions as per usual....

Have both sides off the ground already to loosen the arb a bit

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steveo3002

should go on easily with the arb mounts undone.id fit the inners first the the outer b/j  , then a slight bit of force to get the arb mounts in place 

 

grease up all the fixings with copper grease to make it easier next time

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bastibum

Okay, any idea what torque spec they have. Haynes gives two numbers 30nm for anti roll bar to body and 120nm for anti roll bar mounting. I' guessing we are talking about the 30nm bolts

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steveo3002

dont know sorry...never had a problem doing them up sensibly tight by feel , torque wrench isnt accurate on old rusted fasteners anyway

 

recheck them after a short drive 

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bastibum

Okay, i'm guessing it's 30nm based on how easy they were to get loose. 

I'm still struggling with the setup. Do you get both wheels of the ground, arb mounts off or loose? Note that the arb is still connected to the control arm on the other side

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steveo3002

i would take arb off the car ...fit both arms , then arb ends into the arms , last job fit the front arb mounts ....works for me , others have their own ways 

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bastibum

Hmmm, so you are fitting both arms (the ball joints) to the hubs first before fitting anything of the ARB? I'm guessing you fit the ball joint at last. Yet I have a hard time figuring out where to put the jack stands now the arb has to get off, so I can't let it stand on those arb mounting points. When I want my stands under the jacking point by the doors I have to jack it up where the control arm meets the chassis, really high. But then it seems the car is way too angled to put stands under there safely

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steveo3002

support it on the jacking points near the door pillar ..doesnt matter what angle as long as its supported properly , id use a piece of wood to prevent damage to the jacking points

 

fit both arms then the arb last , it will need a little force but not too hard...like i say others prefer to force it with a long bar , but that works for me

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bastibum

So you fit the arms fully to the hub and the chassis first? Then it is possible to fight the arb in place? I'm not able to place my jack stand under the jacking point at the door because my floor jack is in the way.....

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steveo3002

inner bolts first , then force down and connect the ball joint ...do both sides , then one end of the arb will go in , slight fight /force to locate the other end , then pull /push the front mounts into place and bolt up, might need your foot against it to shove it but nothing too extreme

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  • 2 weeks later...
bastibum

Trivia question: Is it possible to put the arb on upside down on a 4 speed breadvan? 
Because haynes says the front of the bar must be facing up, however now I have it lying on the floor it actually is facing down. If if flip the thing it will face up 

Might be the cause of the ARB being such a pain in the ****. 🥴

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dvderlm

With a 4 speed gearbox it can be fitted upside down.

Is a bit further from the exhaust downpipe(s) eg G40 stainless manifold.

I honestly could not tell any difference in handling/cornering with bar upside down, with standard suspension.

 

With a 5 speed box and 4 speed ARB it will sometimes bash the gearbox end casing really hard on bumpy roads, potentially until it leaks oil.

 

 

(Note; my Polo is pre August 1984 so camber is -10' to +50' from factory.

After that -30' to +30' for all Polos.

Except GK engined like mine.  After Aug1984 -40' to +20'

Except G40: -50' to +10' (?).

Much later I changed the castor using ARB blocks and lowered 60mm and used camber adjustable top mounts aiming for about -15'. That made the steering feel far more precise.)

 

Edited by dvderlm
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bastibum
Posted (edited)

Okay apparently one of the cv joints was replaced but missed these two rings on the axle, that i did find on the other side. What is the function of these rings? Are they really necessary? 

spacer.png

Edited by bastibum
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bastibum
On 05/03/2021 at 18:21, dvderlm said:

With a 4 speed gearbox it can be fitted upside down.

Is a bit further from the exhaust downpipe(s) eg G40 stainless manifold.

I honestly could not tell any difference in handling/cornering with bar upside down, with standard suspension.

 

With a 5 speed box and 4 speed ARB it will sometimes bash the gearbox end casing really hard on bumpy roads, potentially until it leaks oil.

 

 

(Note; my Polo is pre August 1984 so camber is -10' to +50' from factory.

After that -30' to +30' for all Polos.

Except GK engined like mine.  After Aug1984 -40' to +20'

Except G40: -50' to +10' (?).

Much later I changed the castor using ARB blocks and lowered 60mm and used camber adjustable top mounts aiming for about -15'. That made the steering feel far more precise.)

 

Aha. I believe I have a pre August '84 as well. Engine code GL. After some digging on the internet I found out that the ends should face up when you lay the arb on the ground, so it was never on upside down

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dvderlm

See Tellerfeder (plate shaped spring?)  and Sicherungsring (safety ring) on diagram below.

Stops the driveshaft passing further into universal joint.

IMG_20210310_153542_7.thumb.jpg.c6dbeb00ed471633bfbb7da5aa54e8ac.jpg

 

Edited by dvderlm
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bastibum

Thanks for your search work! Number 1 was also missing ..... 🤨
I guess I'll just go over both cv joints again 

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mk2tastic

2/3 act as thrust rings, to do as dvderlm says.

 

3 is the dished steel washer and 2 is usually made of a plastic material. You have to put the dished washer on the right way to match up with the shape of 2. You can make out the way they should be fitted in that picture.
 

If no1 was missing the joint could potentially have come apart with catastrophic consequences.  it’s a locking ring to keep the CV joint on the Shaft, especially when on full lock.

 

Normally you have to knock the joint off the shaft over this ring. CV boot kits should come with all these parts included, so they can be renewed when doing a joint overhaul or renewing the boot.

Edited by mk2tastic
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bastibum

Okay even though it does nit have a snap ring on the new joint does not want to come off the shaft. Any tips? Btw i have the axle still connected in the car

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mk2tastic

If there is no snap ring it should just pull off. Try tapping the joint with a soft faced hammer to see if it budges. 
 

I’ve always done mine with the shaft removed and in a vice, as it seemed difficult to tap the joints off when the driveshaft is still attached to the final drive flanges.

 

 

Edited by mk2tastic
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bastibum

Okay I'm almost done with this job. Just the arb needs to go in both control arms now. I have the car lifted on both sides and this is how far away the bar end is on the second side..... 🤨

Any tips on wrestling with the bar? It seems to only bend a very slight bitspacer.png

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dvderlm

Use a jack (under the strut or hub perhaps, I add a big block of wood to give the needed height) to carefully raise the control arm to nearer horizontal. ARB/stabliser should slide in without too much brute force.

 

(or a ratchet strap could pretension it)

 

Be careful not to lift off axle stands in any way that could slip sideways and crush you.

 

I'm assuming you are doing ARB rubber mounts last, where you can use a jack in centre of ARB so the car's weight, puts it in the right place for the 4 bolts.

 

 

 

Edited by dvderlm
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