How safe is it to just whack some washers behind the bottom bolts? Same size washers obv Just wondering, am thinking about running camber :)

Not quite, camber shims are the better and safer choice tbh

Is there any difference in reality?

A piece of plastic or 2 metal rings? As long as they're secure and you dont put huge ones on it'll be reeeet.

Fair enough, see I've heard a lot of mixed opinions Still not sure

for the sake of £20 notes if your unsure why take the chance?

Is there any difference in reality?

A piece of plastic or 2 metal rings? As long as they're secure and you dont put huge ones on it'll be reeeet.

You have plastic camber shims? WTF!!!

Do you even know what were taking bout here?

This is a camber shim:

Some serious camber on these.

Edited 11 July, 200917 yr by Cymro

The shims that Regal Auto sell, that LOADS of people use, are made of plastic, yes.

How is using a big slanted block of metal like that, different to using a couple of washers? Apart from the washers are probably less likely to wreck your wheel bearings...

Washers would leave a gap, letting water/mud etc in. and how are washers less likely to wreck wheel bearings? Camber is the same weather your using metal, plastic, washer or wood () they will all cause wheel bearings to wear a bit quicker. The pictures i used show a more extreme approach to camber but the owner hasnt had any problems with it.

I would rather that big block of metal than a bit of plastic really.

Spacing the wheels out loads and running alot of negative camber will cause the wheel bearings to wear alot quicker.

Plastic or not, they're designed for that purpose..

Spacing the wheels out loads and running alot of negative camber will cause the wheel bearings to wear alot quicker.

Plastic or not, they're designed for that purpose..

but you were suggesting that washers would cause less wear

Apart from the washers are probably less likely to wreck your wheel bearings...

and the car pictured there is also running spacers on top of that.

Edited 11 July, 200917 yr by Cymro

Yeah i mean cause washers about 2mm think like the plastic shims will only add slight camber, like 1.5 degrees..

That block is a spacer and looks like it's also added a fair few degrees of - camber..

now it makes sense, as i said the one i pictured shows some serious camber, and to get it the shim needed to be a damn sight thicker at the bottom and would also have needed to be a bit beefy at the top to cope with the stress.

Ill find the camber amount out now

edit: thats 5 degrees of camber, with spacers and all its about 8ish.

Edited 11 July, 200917 yr by Cymro

True, for something like that it makes sense..

The plastic ones are popular though, but they're actually designed for accurate camber/toe correction, although most people use them just for max - camber, which a couple of washers could do the same, to an extent..

now it makes sense, as i said the one i pictured shows some serious camber, and to get it the shim needed to be a damn sight thicker at the bottom and would also have needed to be a bit beefy at the top to cope with the stress.

Ill find the camber amount out now

edit: thats 5 degrees of camber, with spacers and all its about 8ish.

What?

How would adding spacers take 5degs camber to 8degs? 5degs is 5degs no matter how much the wheel sticks out!

Anything more than 3 just looks broken anyways and anything less than an 8inch wheel looks even worse. Fact

I'm quoting from the build thread on the car. I'm sure the owner will be along sometime to verify it.

Well whoever it is is all kinds of wrong lol!

JimmyB's car by the looks of it... ATS Classics..

now it makes sense, as i said the one i pictured shows some serious camber, and to get it the shim needed to be a damn sight thicker at the bottom and would also have needed to be a bit beefy at the top to cope with the stress.

Ill find the camber amount out now

edit: thats 5 degrees of camber, with spacers and all its about 8ish.

spacers make no difference to camber what so ever, unless you are twisting the beam with all the leverage.

by using camber shims, washers, whatever, you are causing the bolts alot of stress, effectively making it try to bend around the corner you have made with the shim. overall its a pretty poor solution that looks terrible with anything over 3degrees.

washers arent as safe as a full shim, you are reducing the contact patch between the stub and the beam down to bugger all, possibly allowing flex which could lead to the bolts coming loose, that and the fact you arent even mounting it square on the beam is a pretty shite idea in my opinion. i'd be having the drum off every now and then to re-torque the bolts.

if you want wide wheels at the back, get some arch work instead. wild camber at the back and nothing at the front looks ridiculous.

Ye i can see what everyones saying, i was just unsure as to how safe washers are as opposed to shims etc. I'v got some wide wheels now, and i dont want mad camber, just enough to make the wheels go under the arches Was just thinking about the washer option as iv heard about people doing it :)

when i ran my camber (4.5degrees) i used washers and it ate wheel bearings and tyres (bearings collapsed twice and got 600miles to a set of rear tyres) but i that was down to the amount of camber, not how it was done. just make sure the washers are perfectly level or your wheels will toe in/out

Ah cool, might try it then :)

m10 washers, both bottom bolts or possibly only the front depending on toe in situation.

Dont worry about the death sotries, use only 1 washer and make sure you tighten the bolts up in a star pattern to even the pressure load on the bolts and mounting surfaces. regulalry check tightness aswell, the bolts have a habbit of loosening up a little

Ant

So is it a bit like the old chopped spring debate And yer i will work something out with it tomorrow :) Thanks for all the help :)

All this talk of negative camber,the cars are set-up to understeer as it is. I suppose this is another air-cooled rip-off..

I'm thinking of some positive camber,obviously only about half a degree max,to straighten the wheels up nice and vertical and thus make flicking the tail out a bit easier in corners.

Washers are a bit of a bodge,but a pair of even plates mounted horizontally top and bottom (two seperate strips,each with two bolt holes) with one a fraction thicker than the other,would have plenty of surface area within the bolt shoulders.

EDIT: I'm an idiot haha!

Edited 13 July, 200917 yr by Alan...