Well went to zee local bodyshop suppliers today and got me the rest of the stuff I need. Was chatting to the bloke (25 years experience) who mixes the paint and he told me a method for respray...it seems lots of people have differing opinions on this so though I'd tell you what he said and see what people think.

1) remove all rust completely

2) key entire surface with 400 grit and scotch pads with plenty of water

3) Cellulose high build primer where needed (i.e. areas where rust may come through again, scratched areas)

Does this need thinning at all, I can't remember!

4) Smooth everything back with 800 grit and again, plenty of water

5) 2-3 coats of base coat mixed 50/50 with thinners (2K, and it's metallic )

6) Let dry completely

7) 2-3 coats of laquer at 2.5 bar pressure (got the ready to use stuff)

8) Flat and polish with G3, T cut and then Autoglym or similar.

I asked about barcoat as I was worried about paint reacting but he said factory paint should be fine.

Anyone got anything to add? Only other tip I thought of is to use water on the panels to see how smooth they are after step 4.

And so it begins this week, I can't wait, was like a lil girl in a toyshop!

Found this courtesy of Dom last year:

different paints require different amounts of thinning for cellulose i.e. these are what I normally use:

"etching primer 1:1 paint:activated thinners

high build primer 3:2 paint:thinners

normal primer 1:1 paint:thinners

metallic basecoat 2:3 paint:thinners

laquer 4:1 paint:thinners

but that will all vary with the spray eqipment you use, the paint you buy and your technique for spraying, so its best to ask the paint supplier what they recommend. also you're better off using anti-bloom or premium thinners for spraying and standard thinners for cleaning up"

which primer type is mine then? normal? He said cellulose primer and 2K paint will be okay together and won't react?...

Info very much appreciated, I will keep my eye on the replies to this one.

Where did you get your supplies (and what sort of $ are we talking?) PM me if you want

erm dont ask me about paint, as you've seen the finish on my mk2, but thats because I used far too much paint, there are some professional sprayers on here whose comments would be good.

If you're using 2 pack basecoat and laquer, I wouldnt use cellulose primer, I'd use 2k primer, as that dries by chemical reaction rather than evaporation, so there will be less sinkage as the paint dries, and the solvents can go into filler, so cause it it raise, which if it is then flatted back will look like its sunk 3 months later as the trapped solvents have escaped.

high build and normal primer are the same, you just apply different amounts of thinners.

when I'm painting I try to prep a panel, then key it with 400 grit wet and dry, then prime it with a couple coats of high build primer. I then leave it for a week or two for the paint to "dry"

I then flat it back with either 600 grit wet and dry paper, and look at the reflections in the panel to see imperfections. (this can also be done when filling, and avoids the need for guide coats).

I dont feel that its necessary to go finer than 600 grit wet and dry as they surface needs to be slightly rough for the paint to stick and its the job of the primer to fill in the small imperfections.

dont forget that cellulose and 2 pack paint systems are being phased out by the end of this year, so it might be worth stockpiling the paint you think you'll need. They are being replaced by water based systems that require heaters and blowers to dry the paint, so may not be as easy to use at home.

Hmm...well the guy said that that primer and 2K would be ok...damn, can't be arsed to go changing it now unless I really need to...I'm only going to need to filler primer little bits of the car anyway, if I let the primer dry (in my garage of course) for a couple of weeks before using the base coat then might it be ok? Or shall I swap it for the 2K stuff? argh!

easiest thing to get when spraying is a mixing stick. They cost like £2 at a paint place and have measurements on as to how far you fill thinners to, then add primer or base or laquer accordingly.

If I can find mine I'll send it to you.

Oh, and get antibloom thinners as well!!

i thought 2k paint was gone by now!...i think that must jus apply to bodyshops who have probably all stopped using it by now

good luck with it Charlie...sounds like you've got most of the techniques and info your gonna need

no you should be fine using 2 pack and cellulose, its just that the 2 pack will sink less. they stopped making cellulose and 2 pack paints for use by the car trade at the end of last year, and there is a ban on surplus stocks being sold after the end of this year.

I use a metal ruler for measuring the paint and thinners ratios

the main thing to remember is that everyone has their own techniques, and only practice will teach you the best way to do it.

one thing to remember if your using a measuring stick is make sure the the pot your mixing up in is the same size all the way up as if the sides taper the ratio will be wrong.

luke

thankyou for the advice everyone, have got 2 special measuring jug thingys from the place I got the paint, and of course anti-bloom thinners.

"the main thing to remember is that everyone has their own techniques, and only practice will teach you the best way to do it. "

Wise words...that's why I'm starting with my spare bonnet, so when I arse it up first time it's all good!

I'll update this thread with more hassle when it happens!

IIRC Diggers G40 is a painter by trade.

He maybe the man to work your womanly charm on!

Cheers Kam, I've pm'd him. Hopefully he can help.

This posted by someone else (MICK F) in another thread (noob ), think it's aimed at me...

"I'm a painter and have bin for 5 years and i just want to say please dont use ready laquer.(by this i think u mean 1k) it is so shit and will peel off in less than a month. there is no such thing as 2k base coat. i think u mean it is solvent. he has given u a very rough guide and take my word for it it is not that easy at all. get some good high build 2k laquer that is the most important thing of all. and loads of degreaser or some people say panel wipe. and tack rags for taking dust off before applying the base"

some questions and pointers...

a) why would they sell it if it was that shit? Surely the reason for peeling would be water getting under it therefore not decent enough coverage to seal it in the first place? I am planning on a minimum 3 coats of laquer.

b) I didn't say '2K base coat'...I was referring to the colour coat of 2 pack which you laquer over the top of. Sorry my terminology isn't spot on...

c) The reason I haven't got 2K laquer is because I don't have an air fed mask (unless somone wants to give me 150 quid for one) I just have a decent 'few use' one so chose 1K laquer cause it's easier on the lungs apparently.

And as for 5 years, the guy who advised me at the shop has been painting for 25 years...not saying you are wrong he's right just that he wasn't clueless. Thanks for the advice all, hope I can get my head round this properly before I fuck it up using the wrong stuff. :(

pm'd you back charlie

unfortunatly painting is not that easy and to be honest to try and get a good job you have got the wrong type of paints

I've left my number for you so give me a ring and ill try to help out

matt

pretty much sorted now, thanks to matt, pinches and everyone else for great advice.

Swapping the laquer tomorrow for 2K. :)

Fortunately for me the lad who rents me space in his unit is also a painter. Although he doesn't usually like doing jobs for other people he does them for me happily. Hes a fucking MINT painter as well so hopefully the paint on my square will be awesome!! Kids a legend like.

I wanted a front bumper recess smoothed and hes ended up wanting to paint my entire car a different colour, can't compain

last time I used car paint, I applied it with a roller :lol: :lol:

so what are the issues with 1K lacquer, can the pros please explain?

The explanation I've been given is that it is more suitable for little jobs, (i.e. a bumper fill in) not a complete respray...it dulls pretty quickly, isn't as smooth a finish (orange peel mofo) and generally doesn't last well without peeling. I don't know the chemical/technological reason for this though I'm sure someone else will...

Kam- you are far too jammy! I want a unit but can't find any near me to rent. :(

last time I used car paint, I applied it with a roller :lol: :lol:

so what are the issues with 1K lacquer, can the pros please explain?

1k is a really old product now and as charlie says only suitable for small jobs

the problem you have is drying times, you can put a coat of 1k on and 1 min later it is dry enough to put another coat on, therefore not ideal for a respray on a whole car also you dont get a very good build up of paint to polish as 1k is very thin

you cant beat 2k and to be honest there are some really cheap but very good lacquers out there,only thing is it is illegal to paint 2k outside a spraybooth now but who cares

at the end of the day its like everything else, it is down to how much you spend on a product to how good the job turns out , to give you a idea a good cheap lacquer will cost around £40 per litre the ones i use cost around £140 per litre (but this is in a very large bodyshop doing insurance work only)

hope that helps

matt

only thing is it is illegal to paint 2k outside a spraybooth now

really?!? :paranoid:

only thing is it is illegal to paint 2k outside a spraybooth now

really?!? :paranoid:

yep has been for a long while get a £40000 spraybooth and you will be fine

i suppose noone will moan unless you cover next doors washing in overspray

matt

just take your time and remember the more you prep the better the finish or thats what i've always been told :p

oh and try to keep where your working warm.

Cheers Kam, I've pm'd him. Hopefully he can help.

This posted by someone else (MICK F) in another thread (noob ), think it's aimed at me...

"I'm a painter and have bin for 5 years and i just want to say please dont use ready laquer.(by this i think u mean 1k) it is so shit and will peel off in less than a month. there is no such thing as 2k base coat. i think u mean it is solvent. he has given u a very rough guide and take my word for it it is not that easy at all. get some good high build 2k laquer that is the most important thing of all. and loads of degreaser or some people say panel wipe. and tack rags for taking dust off before applying the base"

some questions and pointers...

a) why would they sell it if it was that shit? Surely the reason for peeling would be water getting under it therefore not decent enough coverage to seal it in the first place? I am planning on a minimum 3 coats of laquer.

b) I didn't say '2K base coat'...I was referring to the colour coat of 2 pack which you laquer over the top of. Sorry my terminology isn't spot on...

c) The reason I haven't got 2K laquer is because I don't have an air fed mask (unless somone wants to give me 150 quid for one) I just have a decent 'few use' one so chose 1K laquer cause it's easier on the lungs apparently.

And as for 5 years, the guy who advised me at the shop has been painting for 25 years...not saying you are wrong he's right just that he wasn't clueless. Thanks for the advice all, hope I can get my head round this properly before I fuck it up using the wrong stuff. :(

Y get funny wen I'm trying 2 help? what r u on about water underneath? iv never heard of that there shouldnt b water any where near the car you are painting. and who cares if u aint got an air fed i know its bad 4 u but only if u do it every day. either u stop being a poof and breath in a bit of 2k or have a shit finish? you are choice? your terminology is no where near let alone spot on. a little knowledge is dangerous to some people on here.

I heard Phil was opening a bodyshop

Only decent advice i can give is don't test its dry my touching it like i do

Oh and when rubbing down use a mask, i didn't on the mk1 and had a sore throat for a week or so, makes you look abit spesh but worth it.

I heard Phil was opening a bodyshop

looks like he's doin well, :-D is he cheap :p

Y get funny wen I'm trying 2 help? what r u on about water underneath? iv never heard of that there shouldnt b water any where near the car you are painting. and who cares if u aint got an air fed i know its bad 4 u but only if u do it every day. either u stop being a poof and breath in a bit of 2k or have a shit finish? you are choice? your terminology is no where near let alone spot on. a little knowledge is dangerous to some people on here.

I wasn't being funny, you've just read it that way...What I meant is water getting under the laquer AFTER the job is finished. And I technically can't be a poof, I'm a girl. I'm not claiming it's easy or that I know everything about what I'm doing, hence asking for advice- which other people have provided without needing to use 'text tlk'.

And thankyou I've decided to use 2K laquer.

Yoof- that's probably the exact kid of thing I'd do...'It looks dry...doh!' Plus it will be safety spesh glasses and mask all the way, after caining my eyes numerous times working under the derby without them. Had to go to work and teach kids looking like I'd spent the whole night up on crack.