my old car was on chopped up 80mm PhilJ kit and my car now is on Ta-Technix coileys with the helper springs taken out and wound almost all the way down

i still shit my pants whilst going over an uneven road with my existing set up as much as i used to with the chopped springs

springs are still springs at the end of the day, and so are the shocks, both components in the suspension do have limitations on the amount of movement they achieve however you modify them

cut 1 coil off a spring? the shock will have abit moee play and move abit more skippy, cut 4 coils off a spring? the shock will still only have the same amount of movement as if one coil was cut off, but obviously, skip alot more...

^^ The more coils you cut off, the more compressed the shock will be when driving normally.

1 coil off, it would be a bit compressed, 3 or more off and it would be squashed down alot, which would effectively damage them severely.

Well done for picking one sentence out of a paragraph and ripping it.

The new batman film was terrible. If you consider terrible as some bloody amazing.

Quote:

The new batman film was terrible.

OMG I TOTALLY CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT.

Try reading the whole thing before you reply.

Why I said you can't compare cut springs to coilovers is that coilovers can be adjusted, in some cases so you know for a fact that the lowest setting won't handle best you do it for appearance and you can have good performance from adjusting them in the same afternoon. I put no full stops in there so you couldn't pick out one sentence and make of it what you want.

^^ Who are you referring to?

I put no full stops in there so you couldn't pick out one sentence and make of it what you want.

yes you did

Unsafe and not MOT passable at some places.

Unless your desperate, and i mean DESPERATE, get springs or coils.

Well done for picking one sentence out of a paragraph and ripping it.

The new batman film was terrible. If you consider terrible as some bloody amazing.

Quote:

The new batman film was terrible.

OMG I TOTALLY CAN'T BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT.

Try reading the whole thing before you reply.

Why I said you can't compare cut springs to coilovers is that coilovers can be adjusted, in some cases so you know for a fact that the lowest setting won't handle best you do it for appearance and you can have good performance from adjusting them in the same afternoon. I put no full stops in there so you couldn't pick out one sentence and make of it what you want.

Well if you wear them out by using them on there lowest setting then you won't have good performance. Plus you will need to get your tracking and camber done, which costs money. Which is why most people just buy them, set there ride height and then leave them be. They give you the option, but most people never used it other than when they first get them out of the box.

Well done for getting on your high horse without valid reason.

But here you go, so you don't have to cry about it.

Sorry for that post i was rude.

Yes, it was.

Back to the topic, I think the best way to describe cutting springs is they're like remould tyres. They aren't going to kill you directly, but they sure has hell aren't going to be helping you.

Its nothing like remould tyres really. If tyres aren't safe then its a big issues. If you lobbed a coil or two out of a spring its still safe.

Comparing cutting springs to the lowest setting on coilovers is unfair. If you want performance you have the ability for it and if you want style you've got that too. Cutting springs is just being stingy.

already answered.

I got a set of lowering springs from ECP for 40 quid and they improved my car's handling immensely (a mk1 polo). I know for a fact lowering it 40mm by cutting them isn't going to improve the handling.

No its not. But you seem to be incapable of understanding that some people don't lower there car for handling reasons, they do it for the looks. When people want there car on the floor, 40mm springs and standard shocks aren't going to give them that. I chopped my 1.0L springs because it has about 4BHP and wasn't set up as a track weapon, I just wanted it to be low so it looked better. Why would I waste £40 on springs when I can DIY it for free and get a better result.

That heg123 guy ran chopped springs on his rally car and he gives that thing more abuse than most of us would ever give our cars on the road. If he can cope with them without killing anyone then I'm sure me pottering around at 30 in my bready isn't going to end in disaster.

Well said!

safe if done right

MOT pass if done right

Kam, not disagreeing with you, just in terms of budget (if thats what its coming down to)....

If its just for looks, fair enough, but spring chop for free, then how much for replacement shocks? I was quoted £100 for a pair of fronts when it failed the MOT. hence why i bought a PhilJ kit.

I'll conclude with...

If you dont care about handling / ride quality etc.. lopping off bare coils probably aint going to be much different from coilies whacked all the way down.

Budget mixes it up then.. chop springs are free, so fair enough, but cost me in the long run.

Coilies are gonna cost alot more, and as said, wont improve handling if decked.

I think we've gone off the safety of cut springs and onto decking for looks vs. handling and practicality

There was even an article in PPC magazine on how to chop springs safely. They did it to a Porsche.

And now on this page,its being pushed that cutting a spring wont make your car handle better. Yes it will,if done sensibly,though only a fraction. It lowers the centre of gravity,and technically stiffens the spring,as each coil left has to compress more for the wheel to travel the same distance.

^^ A fraction though?

On the standard shocks on my Polo, the cup and the top mount are shaped for the end of the coil to sit in, so it had to be cut 1 whole coil at a time else it wouldnt sit properly, an each coil worked out to about 20-25mm.

Smithy,you say your shocks got ruined. Mine are still sweet after 40k. So as far as I'm concerned,your conclusion is flawed. Maybe if i chopped another two coils off id have a problem,but that'd be daft.

You're wrong about how much you can cut from a spring. You can cut a quarter,half,two thirds from a Polo spring if you like. But only from the bottom.

Yes,the top is concentric,and fits flat in the top cap. But the top cap can go on at any degree. You can turn the coil 360 degrees in the top cap.

Cutting half a coil from a standard GT will safely lower it approx 15-20mm with no adverse effects.

So how is it flawed?

You say it would be daft, but that would have the car decked, which is (most commonly) the main reason for chopping springs.

I realise you're very clued up, so can you disagree with this...?..

Aim: Deck the car.

Handling/ride quality: Fuck it.

Fact: 3 coils off all round, shocks constantly compressed, ruined in a month.

We're saying chopping is for slamming the car on a budget, with disregard to handling etc etc..

Surely you realise if done so, having a shock all the way in for a while, day to day driving, aint gonna do much good, is it?

I've seen no evidence that the position of the damper piston has any effect on its wear,and it makes no sense for it to do so. Its not like its under any more load when compressed,because its not - its a damper.

The reason they wear quicker is because the spring rate rises when you shorten a coil,as I've said above. So a considerably chopped spring needs an uprated damper to control it.

youd be silly to cut them, just buy lowering springs

Ok, if thats the way you see it, but you agree that seriously chopped springs will nacker he standard shocks, for whatever reason, thus a supposed 'budget' technique, used solely to slam the car, will still end up costing moeny and wasting time.

And what do you base that statement on,acg?

A friend had a 306 GTi-6,lowered 60mm,and it crashed all over the place. The front springs were too tight.

So i chopped and fitted 40mm springs. They sat pre-loaded in the shocks,because they were shortened and uprated,and the chopped 40s were still longer than the 60s. But softer.

On the road,the front sat the same height,but was smoother,more supple.

uprated springs are safer for a start, theyll look better and theyd be better quality

Thats a completely different scenario.

I'm giving my facts, that for some reason you cant accept :S

3 COILS OFF ALL ROUND, SHOCKS SERIOUSLY COMPRESSED, CONSTANTLY, EXCESSIVE COMPRESSION, FLUID POURED OUT, SHOCKS FUCKED.

That was (in real-life, believe it or not), witnessed first hand by me, and confirmed by 3 very good mechanics.

I'm not speaking foreign..

The 306 handled better,and was a safer car,with chopped springs than non-chopped springs. And the shocks will last longer too,because they are damping a lower-rate spring.

Smithy,heavily lowering a car on standard shocks isnt a good idea,no. Because of the preload issue. Using cable ties to hold a spring wont always stop the top seat from falling out of place - I've seen that happen on another 306.

Right so trimming them to improve handling can be beneficial..

Chopping them up to deck the car for looks will do the complete opposite, i think we've each proved those points.

Smithy,the shock being highly compressed didnt cause the failure. It was because the spring was of a higher load,as I've explained already. Each coil compressed further,as there's less of them,so the spring was harder. This was too much for the standard damper.

But heavily chopped springs preloaded in an uprated and shortened damper may be better than 80mm springs in the same damper.