cost wise if the AVY bottom end is known good i'd just bolt the AFH head on to it. swapping out the internals means more cost as you'll also need to replace stuff in the bottom end of the engine, seals, rings, ect. its also easier because basically your just removing and refitting a head which i understand is more than you've done before in this respect? if so maybe it's best to walk before you run in regards to building engines? start with a simple head swap rather than what would pretty much be a full engine rebuild

Thanks guy looks like that will be the route i take then. Shama as i love the look of the avy!

Use an AVY with a non vvt head like mikey has? It would be more straight forward than using the AFH head as it would be a straight bolt on job

All this 16v stuff confuses me

So, can you get a non-VVT version of the GTI engine?

Plus it looks great.

I just want an engine cover

In a mk2? Pffft!

Yeah man! Itl look cool i think. Plus itl hide the carbs and leads ect

What head is the non vvt one then? The 9n head?

I disagree with Guy, on the experience of building a 1.6 version of an AFH on all used internal parts - the shells on the crank need to be how they are, which is fine as you're transferring this all from one block to another it isn't affected. So just put the rods/shells back in precisely the same order / way around.

Same with the rings and big ends - match them to the moving surfaces. So AFH kept at home in their bores ideally, though if they don't fit they will transfer most of the time (i used BCB rings in the first AFH and they sealed perfectly). I moved the mains across in the same order too, so they were at home to the crank. You could match the AFH rings to the AVY pistons if you wanna keep the rings at home, same with matching the mains to the crank in the different block if you prefer.

Whatever, as long as they match one side and are in a proven order - you don't wanna re-use stuff if you've chucked it in a pile though, and don't know what went to what cylinder!

So ideally:

AFH bare block with it's rings at home. (But AVY shells should work okay if the rings don't fit).

AVY crank/rods/pistons with their corresponding shells/shells at home.

The only new parts i used were the big end bolts, they must be new, you don't wanna throw a rod. Crank bolts are fine to re-use.

Doesn't sound easier, but it solves a couple of hassles trying to use an AVY bottom end.

Firstly, the relay roller - Guy is lucky enough to be able to get them drilled. But no engineers around here has managed it. I doctored the block, but it's not something i was ever too happy about. Others used other means, which failed and smashed their engine up.

Secondly, the head bolts are weaker, more elastic. Strong enough apparently, but the AFH head is taller so the M9 bolts have to be stretched that percentage more to equal the same tension. I just didn't like it. I even calculated the length and used bolts precisely the right length.

IMO if i was building a hybrid id get a complete afh and bolt the avy crank/pistons/rods in and be done with it

for the cost involved I'd rather use new rings and seals at the least rather than risk them not sealing and have to pull it apart again to sort it out, but if you've had good experiences of reusing them fair enough

I honestly can't see why people have so much difficulty drilling these relay rollers out tho, we don't have any special tooling or owt here, its the same sort of stuff they will have at engineering companies up and down the country. I've had 3 done and never once did he have an issue and others have had no troubles drilling them out either. Guess its just a case of using the right tool for the job

Edited 4 October, 201213 yr by Mclovin

I still have a genuine VW one that looks like someone's tried to drill it with a mild steel drill bit

Couldn't find a pattern one, so i don't know if they're softer. Perhaps you should make a bunch of them Guy, knock them out for 40% a time!

Whats the diffrence between the avy and afh pistons?

Could you just leave the afh pistons inside the afh block, and shove the avy crank and rods on?

I still have a genuine VW one that looks like someone's tried to drill it with a mild steel drill bit

Couldn't find a pattern one, so i don't know if they're softer. Perhaps you should make a bunch of them Guy, knock them out for 40% a time!

The bloke that did them for me has retired, he gave me the drill bit he used but I don't have access to the lathes. Besides from what I've seen when someone else was selling one, people don't seem to want to pay much more than the cost of the original roller

You could leave the AFH pistons in to give you a high cr Eric which is what I was planning to do when I had the ITB's to go on. mikey knows more about that than me tho as he's actually done it

I still have a genuine VW one that looks like someone's tried to drill it with a mild steel drill bit

Couldn't find a pattern one, so i don't know if they're softer. Perhaps you should make a bunch of them Guy, knock them out for 40% a time!

The bloke that did them for me has retired, he gave me the drill bit he used but I don't have access to the lathes. Besides from what I've seen when someone else was selling one, people don't seem to want to pay much more than the cost of the original roller

THIS!!!!!

That was pretty funny, he wasn't even willing to pay the cost of the part and the bit on top you sorted the bloke out for drilling it out for you

That was pretty funny, he wasn't even willing to pay the cost of the part and the bit on top you sorted the bloke out for drilling it out for you

Joke isent it! Sort it himself and see whos the one thats had to do more work! Cutting off your nose to spite your face kinda deal, aint my loss :p I'm using it now anyway

Can u actually attatch the rods to the pistons without removing the pistons?

High compression? Hmm. Moar powarz then?! Isit dangerously high or just a lil?

Nope. The pistons are attached to the conrods via the gudgeon pin which closes out of the side of the piston, retained by circlips

ah shit. hmm.

ill have to get a piston ring compressor thing then.

so, deffo leaning towards the 1.6 AFH route judging by this thread..

just wondering what pistons to use.

so i could reuse the AFH pistons and not change the rings? how much are rings though?

need some avy vs afh piston info! what differences in power, reliability ect i need to concider.

thanks btw people!

also found that

so all i need to do is just drill hole in cam and fit dizzy? so easy?

That,s my picture :-D and my finger......

^^ The cam in that picture is gonna come loose and fall out the head if it isn't welded. The dark bit in the middle is the cam, the lighter bit is the float ring which is only wedged on, the hole drilled has released it's grip and the cam will float and crash the sprockets.

Eric - yeah i've used 1.6 16v pistons for 11.5:1 and 1.4 16v pistons for about 12.3:1 and the latter wasn't really any better. It ran it's best day with the lower compression if anything, did a fair few miles with the high compression though and used 95 fuel sometimes, but still i never saw a benefit. Nothing wrong with it but not worth the hassle, nice to know it'll inevitably be more reliable with the lower comp. It's still 11.5:1 compared to the AFH's 10.5:1.

to be honest, i dont really understand the compression ratio numbers, i understand about compression ratio and what high octane fuel ect if for, but this 11:5:1 makes no sence to me mate! haha

so are you saying that a afh block with the gti crank/rods/pistons will still be higher compression than a standard 1.4 AFH? interesting!

now reliability is probably the best way tbh, although i normally drive pretty low revs, i do occasionally like the odd motorway blast ect, so itd have to be able to hold up.

so gti pistons, rods and crank then in that case?

and if the shells are in good order i could reuse them aslong as i number where they came from?

sorry for all the questions mikey! I'm new to this engine building lark! its alot more than just bolting some carbs on

also does the oil pump type affect using the avy crank?

ah shit. hmm.

ill have to get a piston ring compressor thing then.

so, deffo leaning towards the 1.6 AFH route judging by this thread..

just wondering what pistons to use.

so i could reuse the AFH pistons and not change the rings? how much are rings though?

need some avy vs afh piston info! what differences in power, reliability ect i need to concider.

thanks btw people!

Piston rings sets are about £30 a post from vw

I've just bought these off eBay tho

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251145881475?ssP...984.m1497.l2649

So that's half the price and the same make of rings

30 a piston is that? Bloodyhell thats expensive man! Reused avy rings ftw hahaha