I think apprenticeships are the way forward now. I messed around for 2-3 years after school being a complete waste of space. The only way I could get into the working world when I got my head straight with a weak employment history was an apprenticeship. I was on my apprenticeship for rounghly 8 months (there was no 12 month minimum then). I then finished my apprenticeship and moved into a steady job, I dont earn amazing money but I know I am safe in my job. I saved up all my wages accept for about £30 fuel each week and managed to get the money together for a deposit for a house.

To cut a long story short, I'm now on the property ladder driving a brand new car and most of my friends are about to finish uni with 30k debt hanging over them. For me its a no brainer.

I am not entirely pro going to uni, but there is more to uni than just a bullshit qualification and massive debt.

There is simply no better way of getting so many connections with other people from all over the world, which in some cases can lead your life in a different direction to what you thought (in a good way). Those few years after school see a lot of growing up, and going ahead with a course that you are interested in can eventually tell you whether in fact that is your route in life. It allows your mind to unconsciously make decisions about what you really want to do after uni.

Problem is most people go to uni because they don't know what they want to do when they leave school, and it's the easy option. So they end up on a shit course they're not bothered about wasting time.

If you're 100% set on a certain career path that would benefit from a degree (or requires one in some jobs) then it is a great thing to do.

It should be stated that going to uni doesn't mean you want a job in that field. I did product design just because I liked it. I don't want to work in London and we don't have that industry here so I always knew it wouldn't lead to a career. I have friends who studied art/geography/english because that's what they enjoy. Ultimately they can get jobs in all sorts of sectors as a degree is a degree at the end of the day...shows what you are capable of. It isn't experience...which is what you need if you don't have a qualification.

Problem is most people go to uni because they don't know what they want to do when they leave school, and it's the easy option. So they end up on a shit course they're not bothered about wasting time.

If you're 100% set on a certain career path that would benefit from a degree (or requires one in some jobs) then it is a great thing to do.

I tend to agree. All of my mates from uni that were there because it gave a clear progression into their desired career have got very decent jobs. Those that were at uni just for the hell of it are the ones that aren't doing so well.

Interestingly I work with a variety of people ranging from HNC-qualified to PhD, and in many cases salary is not proportional to qualification level. However, there are several people who've hit the ceiling for grade/salary because they 'need' a degree to progress - though the company is supportive of those wishing to pursue a degree. I haven't had that worry, so although they were earning whilst I was at uni; they've now got to do an engineering degree in their spare time.

Other employers I've worked for won't recruit non-degree qualified engineers for certain roles, unless they've got 10+ years experience of doing the job at that level. It's fair to say that it's ultimately experience that counts, and there are multiple ways of obtaining that experience.

It should be stated that going to uni doesn't mean you want a job in that field. I did product design just because I liked it. I don't want to work in London and we don't have that industry here so I always knew it wouldn't lead to a career. I have friends who studied art/geography/english because that's what they enjoy. Ultimately they can get jobs in all sorts of sectors as a degree is a degree at the end of the day...shows what you are capable of. It isn't experience...which is what you need if you don't have a qualification.

I see what you're saying, but equally if you want a job in a particular field, then you need to think carefully about your degree choice. Anyone applying for an engineering job with me who's got a performing arts degree will find their CV goes in the bin.

This 'must do degree' attitude was a retarded New Labour aspiration that's given us a plethora of degree-qualified call centre operatives and made some academic institutions incredibly rich. At least now there are a lot more apprenticeships and other valid alternatives on offer, and people should be encouraged to chose the route that's right for them and their chosen career.

They can legally pay you way way way below minimum wage

Wrong. If you are 19 or older & have been an apprentice for the same company for over 1 year, they legally have to pay you at least minimum wage.

Not in my experience. I got to third (final) year with the NIE, they were still paying us south of £4 an hour, with at least 2 hours a day unpaid overtime, no fuel expenses and like someone else said we were told when to take our time off. Also nearing the end of the second year we were told that we would be staying on an apprentices wage for a further two years after fully qualifying because of the downturn in business, hence me leaving.

Looking back I wish i'd stayed on for the last year as the starting wage is circa 28k not including call outs and overtime but at a young age most people arent geared up mentally to deal with the barrage of terrible treatment you get as an apprentice. Fair play if you stick at it dude. G'luck

I did A-levels for 2 years, physics and chemistry (got low grades)

then

I went to college and did a BTEC national for 2 years in aviation (achieved distinction, but no decent jobs in the sector)

then

I did a 4yr practical engineering apprenticeship with Rolls-Royce, currently doing HNC and then moving on to a Degree course.

I have tried 3 different routes to a career, and so far (from all accounts from all university friends) apprenticeship seems to be the winner. With uni, if you put in the hard work, you might get a good grade, but a job is far from being secure at the end of it, whereas with an apprenticeship, if you perform, you get rewarded. also large blue chip companies are very likely to put their brighter apprentices through degree courses fully paid.

I think you should think about broadening your horizons away from just VAG, and look at other companies offering apprenticeships and compare what they have to offer.

Apprenticeship = foot in the door for sure.

Biggest problem with some uni graduates is they only focus on getting their degree and nothing more. It can be a key enabler to getting a decent job, but it's not the whole story. I got my first job over some better qualified graduates because they only had academic qualifications, whereas I had evidence of getting my hands dirty and actually doing things. I wouldn't have got the job without the degree or the practical experience.

I work with a lot of people with a variety of skills, and unfortunately a reoccurring pattern is graduates walking into a job which they're qualified to do, but have no idea what they're actually doing due to having no experience or common sense, but they have a qualification which somehow makes it ok.

IMO all of the "good" engineers I work alongside have worked their way up, gaining practical knowledge and experience, and either got that job purely on experience or gone on to do a degree too, but that practical foundation of knowledge seems to beat any top grade uni grad for sure.

Obviously it depends on the job in question, and obviously it's hard to gain experience without doing a job in the first place, but IMO it seems massively beneficial to work your way up, even if it takes a little longer, but an apprenticeship is a good way to do this, you get paid to do qualifications, it's great. Obviously massively dependant on job role and company, IMO doing an apprenticeship to work at a dealership isn't the best pay wise/work load, when you compare to the likes of JLR or Rolls Royce, I certainly don't regret it, I'm not even yet into a roll requiring a degree or such skills but still earn more a year than what it would cost me to do a 4 year degree. And I have an opportunity to be sponsored to do a degree when I decide to grow up a bit too.

tbh i dont highly rate car apprenticeships if its engineering you are looking to get into, alot of new starters at my work are from the motor trade and it says something when a 3rd year apprentice is teaching them basic skills. you just dont seem to learn the wide range of little things that make up a good engineer, things like welding, pipe bending, metalwork and fabrication, all sorts. i can do pretty much all of it yet hardly anyone i meet whos done a car apprenticeship can, all they know how to do is read instructions and use a torque wrench it seems? thats how it seems at our place anyhow..

just not the route id take now that I've seen what the differences are, as much as i love working on cars.

if your looking at staying in that industry then hey, its ideal, but otherwise personally id go for something else

thats my opinion though, I'm sure someone elses will be different

Edited 10 June, 201313 yr by erixtar1992

Trouble is the skill set and format vary too much, even apprentices a year below me havnt been taught half the shit I was, and that's the same job and company lol.

Common sense is somewhat lacking these days

yup you cant teach common sence unfortunately

i just get the just that as an apprentice at vw for example your getting trained to carry out specific jobs on cars, whereas i get taught a shitload that i dont even do at work, just incase it ever comes up if you get what I'm saying? just feels as though i could walk into a much wider variety of jobs and fit in in comparison, IMO thats what an apprenticeship should be about.

Edited 10 June, 201313 yr by erixtar1992

Well guys I've applied for an available position at my local dealers, I was also thinking of maybe applying for other brands like BMW/Mercedes as there seems to be loads of apprenticeships available for them.

I think it was a bit different in my day, or i was led to think so. In the middle school in the mid '80s there was only one kid in the class who was doing well enough to be considered a uni possibility - back then it was only for the loaded or gifted. This conditioned an attitude that uni was never gonna happen, so that set the level for my outlook.

I started fixing motors at 14, with an older friend trading them through auction, though even he wasn't old enough to do the buying/selling. But cars were my thing so my education choices reflected that. I dropped out of college at 16 because i knew all they were teaching me, so i went straight into a coachbuilders repairing crashed cars for a living. This petrified my dad, who only saw me as a child needing further education, admittedly i was a bald-faced 4ft 7in 16yo who hadn't a clue about life socially or politically but i had enthusiasm of what i was doing.

I shot up a foot in a year, so by 17 i had my own motor and moved out my negative parents house for dragging me down.

Unfortunately, this was in 1992 when we were in a huge resession, the Gulf war was on, interest rates were at 15% and we were in the shit. So was the motor industry. Thank christ i didn't go to uni, and was free to completely change direction - i took a job in a restaurant.

Life was great, five years as a caterer, now focusing on a social life and growing up.

In the late '90s i did all sorts, signed up to various agencies - did everything from driving jobs to construction site work, and loved it. I traded cars when i had the time in between.

In 2000 i got a job where i am, a job i should have needed qualifications for which i never had the chance to get. I got in through the back door, via my social life.. So back in engineering and machinery, just not cars (these are a bit more expensive and interesting!). Not only that, but i still had the time to trade cars in my spare time. Until a few years ago, when i met the wife, and with kids my life is now too busy for cars.

Temporarily!

Moral to my story is quite simple - don't put all your hopes in one basket. Chances are you'll be somewhere you can't even fathom in ten years time, just as you were in another world ten years ago. Life is long.

Apprenticeship = foot in the door for sure.

Biggest problem with some uni graduates is they only focus on getting their degree and nothing more. It can be a key enabler to getting a decent job, but it's not the whole story. I got my first job over some better qualified graduates because they only had academic qualifications, whereas I had evidence of getting my hands dirty and actually doing things. I wouldn't have got the job without the degree or the practical experience.

Got to agree here. If I could replay uni I would have been doing a fuck tonne of work experience in the summer hols and when ever else I could get it.

We've got a lad in the workshop who is still studying his degree but wanted work experience. Went to private school, now studies engineering in Edinburgh but as quite clearly never done any of the following:

• Worked a full time job
• Swung a hammer
• Used a jig saw
• Seen a multi meter
• Fastend a nylock nut

But he's doing it all now and learning LOADS as he goes! It's great to see. I was quite surpised when he put the nylock on backwards but hey-oh you gotta start somewhere!

Edited 6 July, 201313 yr by Tav

I'm currently an apprentice on the buses. I do enjoy wielding spanners but it definitely puts you off fucking about with cars and stuff at home. Obviously i still do but i want to see red stripe and breasts when i get home over diesel and metal. If you get in at a half decent company the wage is decent, at the moment I'm renting, running a car that leaks mass amounts of fuel and still have a few quid left over for shit i dont need. Id advise an apprenticeship as you get qualified, but i started my career in a backstreet garage and other than the wage it was infinitely better. Meet new people, drive a load of interesting stuff, learn intriguing methods thatd make HSE wince, work on your own stuff when its quiet, trips out to pick bits up etc.

It's weird, if I need to do something on my own car I often can't be bothered, but helping a mate out no problem whatsoever, yet I go to work and love working on the cars, quite happy to.

Get a very good wage, get to go all over the world testing, drive new interesting cars and have decent kitted out facilities with no real pressure of customers waiting for cars, or working on shit that's seized up etc, also fabrication and machining, some test work and input into changes on the cars (testing and development) but really every job varies a lot indeed, I don't regret my apprenticeship at all, I have gained a lot of qualifications and knowledge and earnt a shit load of money in the process,

However I was offered 2 or 3 other apprenticeships where I'd have been paid around £100 a week and done the bare minimum to achieve "an apprenticeship" so it's certainly worth looking around. Dealerships can be good, you'll be trained up quite well; and end up with decent skills if you're good enough like master tech etc, a lot of diagnostics which is particularly useful in this day and age with can networks and such, but from a lot of people I know it's hard graft to earn any decent money, always pushed for time; management often nice people, and half the time you struggle to do a good job because of the above reasons - people assume dealers are the best place to take your car, when really they can be one of the worse! 5 second oil changes, swarf in fuel tanks for warranty claims; iv heard it all, just depends on the specific dealership as they're mainly franchaises

Where did you do your appretniceship out of curiosity?

I'm going to be honest with you. Do an apprenticeship I wish I could have done 1 but nowhere were taking on at the time. I'm 26 and stuck in a dead end job and it's killing me. If I could do an apprenticeship now I would.

IMO appretiships are bollocks, maybe its just mine, but I'm sat looking at a computer for 7 hours each day, i never have anything to do, never get taught anything, and get next to no money for the trouble.

i have to do 50 miles a day to get there and back, and dont get any expenses either, I'm lucky i have a 125 bike that does 90mpg else i couldnt afford to get here and back.

I've been here nearly 2 months now, and I've only just been told how to call out on the phone. the only jobs i get are ones other people cant be bothered doing.

I'm currently looking for full time work doing anything, other than this.

i wouldnt mind it, if they paid my expenses.

IMO appretiships are bollocks, maybe its just mine, but I'm sat looking at a computer for 7 hours each day, i never have anything to do, never get taught anything, and get next to no money for the trouble.

i have to do 50 miles a day to get there and back, and dont get any expenses either, I'm lucky i have a 125 bike that does 90mpg else i couldnt afford to get here and back.

I've been here nearly 2 months now, and I've only just been told how to call out on the phone. the only jobs i get are ones other people cant be bothered doing.

I'm currently looking for full time work doing anything, other than this.

i wouldnt mind it, if they paid my expenses.

Get asking questions boyo, make them teach you, make them give you shit to do.

i have, I've informed them i have no work to do, and that I'm not being tought anything. and that fixes it for about 5 mins while they search for some work for me to do. and as for me getting anywhere through my apprentiship, the woman whos ment to sort out all my units ect. seems to permenantly be on holiday. the council are useless...