Hi all got a issue with my 1.9 sdi 6n2 2001

A couple of weeks ago the metal box peddle sheered off holding the clutch in place so had to get the steering column striped down to get it out and welded, got the car back this weekend and no indicator, wipers or blower heater!!!! The hazards are working and the high beam to flash but won't stay on also the parking light works when you put indicators up or down with the ignition off you know when it beeps at you.

I've check every fuse and striped the dash back down an inspected all the wires and the ones that plug into the stalks as well, I just don't know what else to do! the guy who did it is not being very helpful so I've booked an auto electrician to come Thursday but he wants 50 quid just to come out and look!!!

Can't drive it about at the mo as can't signal and see out of the window when it mist's up or rains.

Any help would be great, or a point in the right direction.

Are these 3 thing connected in the wiring??

Cheers Shell

Edited 22 January, 201412 yr by shellyus

It could be one or two of the relays

I think you're talking about the pedal box - the clutch cable mounting on it.

I have a 6n2 and have a bit of experience with it.

As far as I remember, to do the job you need to drop the steering column. Can't remember if you have to take the column out fully but any manipulation of the column could affect various parts of the wiring loom on the steering column.

Does the high beam not stay on because the stalk won't stay in position? Is the high beam pull back hard to stay on? If it won't stay on because the stalk won't stay in position then I guess that's because the mechanical mechanism is broken rather than the high beam circuit.

Are your wipers, indicator and high beam on the same stalk?

I guess you blower heater is on the dashboard? Is it just the blower fan that won't turn on?

Sounds to me like it could be a break in a common earth that those separate circuits share. You could really do with the wiring diagrams from a Haynes manual or similar. Have you got a basic understanding of electrical circuits?

At the very least I would play with the steering height adjustment up and down a good few times to see if you can make the fault intermittent, but you've probably already tried that. I'm guessing the fault is probably on the steering column wiring somewhere.

Answering the above questions may help others in the diagnosis.

Hope that helps,

Simon

Edited 21 January, 201412 yr by cosaw

Hi,

Yes it was the pedal box that broke and needed welding.

Does the high beam not stay on because the stalk won't stay in position? Is the high beam pull back hard to stay on? The high beams won't push forward to stay on but they will flash when the stalk is pulled back- though it feels quite tight.

The wipers are on a different stalk to the indicators/high beams and none of them work. Not even the rear view wipers.

The blower/heater is on the dashboard and lets hot air through but no blower.

I do have a basic understanding of electronics but don't have a Haynes manual to see the wiring diagrams.

I have chased all the wires up the steering column and adjusted it but couldn't see any earth points. Is there an earth on the steering column that I can look for?

Does anyone know which relays control the flasher unit/wipers and the blower/heater?

Thanks for your help

Shell

not clued up on the newer polos , but all the older ones have whats called a x relay ...basicly when cranking the starter it disables the other stuff so you get maximum starting power

a failed x relay ...or the starter switch /wiring to it would give those symtoms

That's interesting - about the "x relay". To confirm, mine is a 6n2 and operates in the same way so I guess the 6n would have the relay too. The question is whether this relay, or wiring to it, would be disturbed during the pedal box job.

Update:

Having a look through the Haynes for my 6n2. steveo3002 looks to be on to something about the "x contact" relay.

You probably don't know it but it looks like, at the very least, your Heated Rear Window will be affected too.

So remembering that your ignition switch has 3 positions - when you turn your key to position 2 the headlights, indicators, wipers, blower, and heated rear window should all work, regardless of whether the engine is running or not. Turning to position 3, cranking begins and the "x contact" relay opens effectively cutting the supply from the battery (on the positive side) and momentarily powering down said systems until the key is released and the engine is running. When the key is released it switches back to position 2, power to the relay solenoid actuator is turned on again and the relay closes, giving power back to said systems. Importantly: It's at position 2 that the switch, in the ignition switch (which supplies the relay solenoid actuator) is closed and power is supplied to the relay solenoid actuator thus closing the relay.

So as steveo3002 points out it could be the x contact relay or the starter switch/wiring which supplies the relay solenoid actuator.

Looking at my wiring diagrams and thinking. If you could try to re-seat the relay it might tell you something. On my car the relays are further back than the fusebox and not sure if you can get in without removing trim. Need to find where this "x contact" relay actually is. I feel it won't be the relay or the seating of the relay because I don't believe it will have been touched during the pedal box job. I think it's more likely to be the positive supply wire between the ignition switch and the "x contact" relay. It's more likely that this wire has been moved in some way. Of course it could be the earth (that completes the circuit) that's been broken but I feel that's less likely because that's on the side where the relay seats and is less likely to have been touched.

If that was the only relay that switched (when you turned the key) then it would be a simple case of just listening for it. However if other relays were switching too then that wouldn't tell you anything. If you can't hear any relays switching then that would surely indicate that the "x contact" relay wasn't working - then you'd have to find out why.

Again, you could really do with getting hold of some wiring diagrams.

Edited 22 January, 201412 yr by cosaw

This is very interesting my rear heater is not working so sounds like this could be what's wrong with it,

If I go turn my car to position 2 and no further should I get all functions back????

So are the x contact relay and the relay solenoid actuator different things in different places? Does anyone know where they are located I have striped my dash down and found all the relays I have about 5 behind the fuse box but the rest is just wiring are they small so I am missing them when looking?

Thanks guys for all. The help so far

Yes position 2 you should be able to use all the circuits we've talked about that's because it's the same position as when the engine is running. From the sounds of it though that is what isn't functioning on your car so it sounds like you're not getting any of those circuits in position 2 whether the engine is running or not.

The x contact relay and the solenoid actuator are the same thing. Sorry to complicate things. The solenoid actuator are the internals of the relay - when powered up they close (in this case) the switch part of the relay. Position 2 of the ignition switch sends power to the solenoid actuator of the relay and this closes the switch part of the relay. This closing of the relay (under normal operation) allows power to flow to all the circuits you're talking about.

I hope I'm not making things worse. Wrong of me to assume you know how relays work without asking you.

I'm guessing it will be one of the ones behind the fusebox but I'll see if the Haynes manual can tell me.

If it were me I'd be more likely to try and check the plug on the back of the ignition switch before the relay. I'm thinking it's more likely to be the connection between the ignition switch and the relay.

Update: I see the date of your car is 2002, is it a 6n (as you state) or a 6n2? Did 6ns go to 2002, I'm not sure did 6ns and 6n2s overlap?? Wikipedia suggests they overlap but surely not in the same country? Help someone!

Anyway the Haynes isn't helpful on where relays are. It does however state something about a "passenger compartment fuse panel and relay panel". Don't know what it means by that, if it means in the cockpit generally or on the passenger side of the car, implying a passenger side fuse and relay panel. Can someone clear this up! Haynes can be as unhelpful as it it helpful sometimes.

On my car (according to Haynes) the positive supply wire between the ignition switch and the solenoid actuator of the x contact relay is black and yellow.

Sorry I tend to be a bit OCD about details - I'm not intentionally trying to make things harder!

Edited 22 January, 201412 yr by cosaw

Right I tried the car on position 2 and nothing just like you say,

I do have basic electrical knowledge and kind of understand relays a bit more now, I am going to trace the wire back from the ignition switch tomorrow morning and try find the x-contact relay.

I've never seen any fuses in the passenger side but I have another nosy around, I did check all the wiring coming from the steering column the other day but was just looking for damaged wires/loose plugs really, I will check it more thoroughly and hunt for that wire from the ignition.

Thanks for all your help so far again hopefully I might find something so I can cancel the auto electrician who's coming tomorrow afternoon as it going to cost an arm and a leg!!!

I think my polo might be a 6n2 but I am not sure it is a 51 plate and has the square headlines with the clear indicators I thought the facelift (6n2) polos were the ones with the round headlight but I don't think that's right now my polo was first registered on the 01/09/2001 so that's why I though it was a 6n???? I put it down as a 2002 as that's what comes up when I search for parts using the reg so I though it was one of the later ones registered making it a 2002 but my log book says otherwise as I've just found out.

Edited 22 January, 201412 yr by shellyus

Yes I think the passenger side thing could just be the Haynes being badly written.

Square headlights, clear indicators, 2001 all point it to being a 6n2 the same as mine which means my Haynes manual should be correct for your vehicle too. You'll also have solid red coloured rear lights when the indicators and reverse light aren't lit.

Yes got the rear red lights so I am a 6n2, I will look for the black and yellow wire tomorrow morning, do you have a lot of electrical knowledge? As you know your stuff? Thanks again

My electrical knowledge is ok. It ranges. It's fairly basic by comparison to some. I've fixed up several stereo amplifiers with simple faults like intermittent channels, relays and preamp controls. Installed a new consumer unit in a house - when that was still legal without being certified. Built a laboratory power supply from schematic drawings. Built my own loudspeakers. Serviced and installed a CRT projector in my own home. Built a few basic PCs. Repaired the odd laptop. Varied projects.

That's pretty impressive, I am more basic like wiring in stereos, Amps & Subs stuff like that small jobs on laptops pc's mainly hardrives etc also got into those programable boards I while ago like the Genie boards and Picaxe ones.

Did you say your pedal box went on yours? Like mine did sheared off snaped the metal plate joining it up !!

Edited 22 January, 201412 yr by shellyus

Here's a diagram of the relay positions

Edit

Here's the wiring diagram of the X contact relay

Edited 22 January, 201412 yr by nige8021

I've often meant to have a go at PIC programming but never tried it. If I get back into my electronics then maybe I will.

Yes my pedal box partially sheared and the car was undriveable. I put a bolt through it and drove for about 6 more years like that. I then got the clutch and pedal box done at roughly the same time. If I continued to drive the car for long enough then I'm sure it would happen again even though the new pedal box is supposed to be a twice revised version.

Thanks nige2081. The relay positions should be most useful. As far as I can see with a quick glance, your circuit diagram agrees with mine too - so that's good!

Thanks nige2081. The relay positions should be most useful. As far as I can see with a quick glance, your circuit diagram agrees with mine too - so that's good!

That diagram is from the dealers manual so it should be correct !!

This is great thanks but looking at my relays I don't have one in slot 7 there is one labeled 109 in slot 8 and the 100 one is in slot 9??? Am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

Also I was pokeing around the morning and notice one of the spade connectors (attached to a black wire) on relay 109 was not seated in the holder the relay pushes into it keeps moving back when the relay is pushed in, tried to fix it but the relay won't push in when it's in position did not want to damage it futher so left it for now as there was not much room to get behind it, could only get one finger in to move it about, do you think this could be the cause?

Also that relay clicked when I turned the ignition on as I kept a finger on it to feel the click inside, I also chased the black and yellow wire as far as I could from the ignition and could not notice anything out of the ordinary.

Thanks again guys

Edited 23 January, 201412 yr by shellyus

I'm not totally following what you're saying but it's wise to hold back if you're not sure. From my own experience - it always seems easier than you think to make things worse!

Let me tell you what I've found. My trim around the fusebox and relay carrier is still removed from all that time back when I first started messing with my pedal box. So I've got a really good view of the relays.

Unfortunately my car doesn't agree with the relay locations in the above diagram. However from looking and listening to my relays it looks like the numbers in brackets (on the diagram) might be correct.

I have 3 relays, 19 in position 5, 410 in position 6 and most importantly 100 (the x contact relay) in position 10. I've felt 100 and it clicks at the right time to be the x contact relay. 410 clicks at a similar time but I'm sure that's for the fuel pump (on petrols) as I can here the fuel pump turning over.

Don't know what relay 109 is, I don't have it on my car. Looks like you should have a 105 if you're a diesel.

Right I can't believe this but the electricain has been and it was the 100 relay the x-contact one!!! He just took it out and put it back in and it started working!!!! I've had all the relays out and checked them, he recomended changing it so he put a new one in and tightend the contacts where the relay plugs in and it up and running!!! He showed me the old one woking I could hear it clicking when he tested it. So I am 80 quid down :( but all electronics are back up and running.

The other relay with 109 printed on it with the loose spade clip in the bit where you plug the relay in controlled the engine cut off he pulled it out with the engine running and the car cut out!

Thanks for all your help guys

Glad you got it sorted. Shame it cost you £80 but that's just the way it goes sometimes - it could have been worse. At least everyone seemed to be pointed in the right direction.

Edited 23 January, 201412 yr by cosaw

Yes I thought it was going to be something far worse as I could not find anything wrong!

Looks like the electrician had the magic touch!

Cheers guys