"...but this is my car. This is my story. What's going to happen if I do something else? What am I going to learn, and how will this give me a greater understanding and appreciation of all cars, and their owners, and the reasons why they do the things they do?"

I figured it out.

When you popped on to Facebook a short while after the terrorist attacks in France and saw how suddenly everyone had profile pictures overlayed with the colours of the French flag, did you question why? Neither did I. I just accepted it as one of those phases we go through, like LGBT and Charlie where we're seemingly just doing our part to help spread awareness and show our support for the issues we as a collective society face in this day and age.

But in the 1940s when France was attacked the last time, we did a little bit more. We declared war on the Nazis. We fought through the Battle of Britain, we landed on the beaches of Normandy and lost thousands of lives. We liberated France, and we occupied Germany and put an end to the second world war. And all in all, it was inarguably ever so slightly more effective than the change of a Facebook profile picture.

As a liberal I hardly ever question the progressive culture in which we reside, and more often than not consider it a blessing. I feverently defend the progress of technology, and consider what many conservatives consider detrimental to humanity little more than evolutionary steps. A Skype call connects me to my friend Jason in Australia - a person whom I would never have known existed 30 years ago. What is that friendship worth? Is it not priceless, as all friendships are?

Not exactly. In my desire to see only the positive and beneficial within the progress of mankind, I have failed to acknowledge the fundamental aspect of all elements of the world which we live in - that nothing is ever black and white. Nothing is ever truly positive or negative; there are shades of grey - shades which divide us into liberals and conservatives, into patriots and terrorists, theists and atheists, anarchists and neo-Nazis. But it is never quite that simple. And there is always one direction which incours a substantial amount of bias - or what we refer to as "normal".

Call yourself such, and when your Renault starts making odd sounds when you drive, and your local garage diagnoses it with a worn out gearbox and charges you a little more than the value of the car to recondition it, what do you do? Google "car salvage" of course, get rid of the ineffective piece of junk for a little bit of cash, and go down to your local dealership to finance a shiny new Vauxhall Astra. Problem solved, simple and effective.

Most people take that route. And it's part of the world we live in - where simplicity and efficiency get top priority over everything else, including quality. What's going to go wrong on that new Astra? No one knows as yet. But if you'd reconditioned that gearbox in the Renault, I'd bet it'd last a pretty damn long time.

The older generations seem to have it right. They really can appreciate the real world, in all aspects of it - they can look at a piece of chewing gum stuck to the sidewalk and be relieved that at least they aren't looking at a trench full of corpses somewhere on the battlefields of Nazi Germany. And they're resilient. There was a time when something was broken, we didn't just throw it away because it was easier to get a replacement. We fixed it.

How far is too far? When I look at the crumpled back end of my beloved Mk2F Polo that everyone tells me is not worth saving, and decide to defy all logic and reason and go against all advice, do I feel some sort of guilt - for being cursed with having been born into an age of laziness and compromise? Do I feel regret; obliged to make amends for something I have neither been obliged to nor consciously desire to experience?

When I look at the stripped out front end of my Nissan Primera - bumperless and radiatorless, welded-on metal bent into unrecognisable shapes - I think to myself, the vast majority of people will never experience this. Those who don't give a second thought to scrapping car X and financing car Y will never feel the satisfaction of stripping a vehicle down to unrecognisable mechanics using nothing but a socket set, and then building it back up into something a little more than just a vehicle - something that provides endless experiences filled with emotion and excitement; something that defines our lives; something that makes us who we are.

I had a passion for technology once, that developed into a passion for the arts, and has now become a passion for the automotive. My cars have no resale value. The money I spend on them might seem wasted to some, but for me it is the greatest investment I could ever make. I've given up on a career in IT and sold on my guitars, and in a decade's time I may never touch a ratchet again. But this isn't a career. There's a reason for it all. A reason why at 3AM one cold and wet summer's morning the bonnet of my car was up, my toolbox was out and a torch was beaming down onto my engine bay as I tried to remove a snapped cam cover bolt using nothing but a pair of pliers. Skills, knowledge, experience or lack thereof aside; logic and reason aside; finances and abilities aside... to me, that reason's enough to keep trying.

~Vio

Usually I skim read posts, but I read this in its entirety.

Fair play to you Vio, you've had some criticism over the repairing of your rear ended MK2f, but I applaud your thirst for knowledge. We all have our opinions, but they are just that, opinions.

I look forward to seeing the progress on her if you are definitely going ahead!

Remember, it will be a mammoth task, and nobody would think bad of you for changing your mind.

Alex

Why I do the things I do....

Because if I took the pills to stop me doing them - life would be boring.

~Yeti

Sorry, got board and gave up trying to read it all after the first paragraph. Then tried to at least skim read it to be polite but found some fluff in my bellybutton and my concentration wondered on to that.

Why I do the things I do... because no one else is going to do them for me.

What do you do with a snapped ballpoint pen, Vio? Get the superglue out?

Your rear crumple zone was designed to do a job. It did that job. It will never be capable of doing that job again because you will never get the original form back - the bodyshell was constructed in such an order that you can't even replace every panel as it was before.

It's done it's job, it's a bent coke can.

I'm with you on much of what you say - i have two bicycles, one is a stock 1970s Elswick Hopper which i've restored, and the other is a 1996 Merlin which i've fully customised to my preference. I could've just bought new bikes but i like what i like. I do what i do for my reasons.

I'm in a very similar situ with my Polo. Just corrosion damage instead of crash damage. But i wanna save it, because evidently i love it, it seems. It's just an object, dead matter, it's soil. but i put time and money and thought into keeping it.. why? Many don't understand, but to them, their car is just a household appliance. A tool for a job just like a pen. To me though, it's one of my toys. My.. 'things'. For some this might be a games console, their garden, train set, allotment, whatever they put undue focus into.. this is mine.

And the shell is past it. And i recognise it's past it, but it's just a component. And a safety-critical one at that.

Of course, for legal reasons the replacement shell will keep many of it's own components for originality purposes, but that doesn't stop me making it mine with the same extras that made it mine before. Plus a little evolution. I don't mind putting the work in because that's all part of it. You only get out what you put in, as with everything in life.

It's not about being any one type of person (i'm mildly 'liberal-right', apparently), it's about just believing in what you really like, doing what you think is right, etc.

Edited 4 December, 201510 yr by MikeyMK

Why do I do the things that I do? Because I have loved cars since I was just a little kid. Nothing else excited me more when I was a child than getting to do something car related.

Everyone has a hobby or a passion in life. Mine is cars. So I've never thought it would not be right of me to just go out and buy a 'normal' car and be done with it. I know lots of 'car guys' who have a bog standard Vauxhall Corsa on finance. The same Vauxhall Corsa that anyone else can walk into a dealership and buy.

I've therefore always wanted to be different. To start with the easiest way for me was to buy older cars as where I live anything over 10 years old is considered too old and embarrassing to be seen driving about in. After a few cars I found myself in a VW polo mk2f coupe. As with every other car I've owned I joined an owners forum. Unlike every other car forum I had seen at the time this one was full of helpful knowledge and experience, not clueless over ambitious tools. The car itself was awesome, the driving experience was unlike anything else I'd driven at the time.

After years of various experiences I decided to embark on my biggest project. I thought the time was right, I had the money, time, knowledge, friends and a plan of what I wanted. It wasn't long before my GT was as near as makes no difference a bare shell. The rust I found worried me a lot. But I had a friend with years of experience with welding cars. He soon had the rust sorted. By that time I had been through all the mechanicals and cleaned, fixed, painted, made or replaced everything I thought I needed. Then with a little help along the way I built the car back up. Once built I had the exhaust made/modified by another friend who is a fantastic TIG welder.

The whole experience is something I will never forget and will be constantly proud of myself for. As I have ended up with a car that to the untrained eye is an old VW Polo GT. But it is something that no one can go out and buy. It is also by no means finished, it will see more and more mods as time goes on.

So where am I going with all this? Well I've always thought you shouldn't make life harder than it should be. So if ever there is a cheaper or easier way to do something I will do it. Take brakes for example, front discs and pads for a Polo can be had for under £50. But why replace the discs? There is a good chance they could be machined, but it is cheaper and easier to buy new so that's what people do. I take that attitude with everything, so if when starting my GT project there was an easier and cheaper way to start off with a clean, solid, rust free shell I would have done it. The end result would have been the same.

This is where I get to you Vio. Your Polo is very unwell. I admire your enthusiasm for cars but I think you should focus more on what you want the end result to be. You like to be different and go against the grain, which is fine. But when you have fixed your Polo and got it back out on the road with the spinners and chrome what have you achieved? Whereas if you start with an already straight shell, you can focus more time and money on making it something that can be really different. Even though you have taken the easy route it will still be your car and it could well turn out to be a better car for it. This is just my opinion, but it is one based on experience.

so hows the repairs coming along apart from talking talking about it?

stripped any parts off to aid the repair ? sourced any new panels or tools to fit them ?

edit scratch the bit about finding obselete panels ..internet says you can make your own

http://www.build-threads.com/build-threads/thai-kombi-restoration/

Edited 4 December, 201510 yr by steveo3002

That's amazing that. I'm sure I saw a bodywork place near me that actually make panels like that too but I can't see it being cheap.

That seems the best option to me. It would never be as good as it should be using the original panel and unbending it. All the weak points are already created and are now points of concentrated stress. In a crash you will probably find that the damage result would be a lot worse to the rear of the car than it was previously. (Think about when you were a kid bending spoons). Pretty much the same as Mikey said. It's done it's job and it will not do it again.

I'm not saying you can't do it. But if you do it you must do it/get it done properly. Ideally the crumple zone parts need remade not bent back.

Of course these are just everyone's opinions but you have to admit vio, they're opinions should be given more consideration when you realise you are the only person who is telling yourself to go ahead with this shell out of 20+ people as well as the others not commenting.

I'm not aiming to put you down or anything, that's not what I do and I despise people who go out there way to do so. I'll be routing for you the entire time whatever you do and I will be interested in how you do it. Although like Steve said I think you should get a crack on and "make a dent in the work" (Kiran will like that one) . Talking about it all the time just makes people think your looking for appreciation and never going to do it

EDIT: Try bending a spoon. Then bend it back as perfect as it can be. Bend it again using just pressure pushing on the head of the spoon much like the car on your bumper. And see that it is just going to bend in the same place again.

Good luck Vio

Edited 4 December, 201510 yr by wizardmanjm

you liken repairing that car to ww2

how about hitler took on more than he could handle and ended up with egg on his face

Not worth repairing either car really, but each to their own.

Catharsis noted. Time for action (whatever direction you choose).

PoloD.

Edited 6 December, 201510 yr by PoloD

I'm all for doing stuff for yourself where you can; I rarely take a car to a garage to get work done, I'm building my own garage single handedly, I've re-plumbed my house on my own for central heating, I've remodelled rooms in my house to fit my needs. And I'm all for originality too that's why I've modified my own cars, I often buy old things for my house and polish, paint or change their purpose as see fit. My dad lived through the war and so I definitely see your point. But there are some things that are just not worth repairing which is why I scrapped my rear-ended mk2 when it was written off. It was not financially sound (or safe) to do so.

However do what you like, it's your time and money but you don't need to keep telling us all about it and preaching about how different you are and how you're going against the grain. Whether it be with cheap tacky mods to your car or how you're going to miraculously fix this polo of yours. Most of us have spent late nights working on our cars, rolling around in the snow fitting suspension or spent mornings in the pissing rain trying to replace brakes. But we're all car people here, it's what we do. Maybe you're mate Jason will be impressed with your stories.

Make your own mistakes, please. But we don't need to hear about every single one. Because that's all we've seen - posts of you telling us what you're going to do and no action. In fact I've only read posts complaining how you've had your pants pulled down by a garage and none about any mechanics you've done.

Normally I'd not be quite so harsh, but you've actively singled yourself out by

1) Trying to be original AND telling us all about it. If you were truly unique you'd not need to point it out

2) Highlighting modifications that are known to be shit - who are you modifying cars for - you or us? Are you after a reaction?

3) Proclaiming yourself as the 'Resident Ricer' on a German car forum - nothing screams attention-seeking teen more than proclaiming your 'individuality'

4) Writing a non-coherent and irrelevant monologue on a car forum - it doesn't come across as wise. More like 'I have too much time on my hands but want to seem thoughtful whilst I'm not working on my car'.

For the record, we didn't all change our Facebook profile pictures because we're not all sheep. But you'd know that.

This isn't really in regards to my personal situation with the Polo as much as it is about having perspective on the world of cars and people like us in general. In retrospect I should have probably written it at a better time (eg when I was sober), but to answer the point quickly - I've not done anything because I'm midway through replacing the front end of my Nissan. I've put a thread up in non-Polo projects and as soon as that's sorted I'll get back to Dora. My concern is that I've had such a mixed response as to if I should go ahead with the project, and so the purpose of this thread was to a) explain my position in full and figure out if it's justified or not, and b) learn what everyone else is like.

Rice is a weird thing - it's not so much about individuality as it is identity. Every ricer is different, but we're all part of the same group, and that's what defines us. There's a Mk4 Golf in my hometown with blue sidelights, and immediately that separates the driver from every other Mk4 Golf driver still using fried-egg filament bulbs. To us, a car is not only a tool, it's a statement that gets seen a thousand times a day, and the mods we choose are a reflection of us as people. We're saying "Here's my ride, it didn't take much skill, doesn't go any faster, you might think it looks crap... but it's my style." So whenever I see that Golf, or the Audi with LED dustcaps, or the Kia with just about everything possible that can be highlighted with pink spray paint... no matter how ridiculous it looks, it gets a smile and a thumbs up from me - because I know we're thinking that same thing. There's a connection and mutual respect that comes about with ricers. Sure we want to be unique and stand out from the crowd, but it's the way we do it that makes us the same.

But whether you're a ricer or not, it doesn't matter. We're all here for the same reason. Some people like getting others' approval, some like trying different things, some stick with what works... but at the end of the day we all love our cars, so let's all be friends

What is it with people giving grief to someone having the french flag over a profile picture?

People aren't doing it because they are following a trend. It's not a cool thing to do, it did show the french that the world were paying respects to those who lost their families. It's just like a minute silence and it's not like us who did it are thinking we have actually helped or anything....

BUT when Facebook ask you if they can temporarily put it on your profile picture and your that arsey about it, stubborn and trying not to be like everyone else so much that you say no. Then you need to have a word with yourself and ask why your such a negative b*****d. Or why you have a problem with it enough to point others out and discriminate them for doing it.

I personally didn't even think of it. I just pressed OK because...why not? No skin off my back

Miscommunication there. I'm not giving anyone grief about the profile picture thing - like I said it's a great way to spread awareness and such. I just want it to be followed up with something that has a more practical effect, and for people to not be satisfied with just that. Paying respects, minutes silences, saying prayers... it's all great stuff and I don't want people to stop doing it at all. But let's get some air strikes going at the same time.

Miscommunication there. I'm not giving anyone grief about the profile picture thing - like I said it's a great way to spread awareness and such. I just want it to be followed up with something that has a more practical effect, and for people to not be satisfied with just that. Paying respects, minutes silences, saying prayers... it's all great stuff and I don't want people to stop doing it at all. But let's get some air strikes going at the same time.

We are air striking syria now lol that's what has been argued in parliament for 2-3 weeks

And also I wasn't aiming that solely at you vio, or prankster for that matter although saying we are not all sheep goes to say that those who did it are sheep lol

It doesn't prove nothing no but putting it on doesn't do shit to you does it? It shows unity. It shows that you are thinking of them.

I said yeah why not. As in...why the he'll wouldn't I if I am in fact able to and it has devastated me and everyone else in the country.

It may not do much. It may not do anything. But why the hell is it a problem to you if we are willing to find out. If it gives someone a feeling of strength and unity it's done it's job. Nobody is taking credit for doing it. 90 percent of the people on Facebook did it.

I don't go on facebook. The last post I made was sharing a stolen car to spread awareness on mk1-3 and before that it was maybe a year. I don't want any attention on facebook but I happened to click okay because surely better to do it than not bother.

Ahh...someone deleted Ronnie Pickering's comment

It was a valid point though - there is an issue here.

There are, or should be 3 stages to the process. 1st one is your response - you log on to facebook, see all the french flags and think "oh shit that's terrible", and you change your picture as well to let your friends know and continue the awareness process. 2nd stage you get information - you head over to BBC or whatever and read up on the news, talk to other people and see what they think, get your head around the situation and once you know all the facts, you form your own comprehensive opinion on what needs to be done. 3rd stage is getting hands on - actually doing what needs to be done in order to get us on track to the best course of action - what petitions to sign, votes to cast, etc etc. everything short of you actually enlisting for the RAF. That's how things should get done, and that would actually help.

The problem is, the vast majority of the profile picture changers don't get past stage 1.

You're a Frenchman in Paris and someone you love just died in one of the attacks, and you hear that millions of people feel terrible for your loss and are using the flag in such way to show their support... does that alone help? I dunno, and I hope I don't ever have to find out - but if there's a chance that it may have even the slightest positive psycological effect, then I don't really see a reason to condemn the idea. In theory, the Facebook thing is a great place to start that process in making sure it doesn't happen again to somebody else. Granted, it's not as effective as Prankster and many others would like, but that's a problem with our society, not the system we've been given. So I don't have a problem with it in that sense.

But like I said in the original post, in the past we always seemed to do a lot more. And maybe it's as a result of that system that we've become lazy and just settle for less... but getting rid of it entirely? I don't think that's the way to go. If anything I can see us doing even less than what we are now - maybe nothing at all - if we lost the convenience of just being able to do the bare minimum.

I think human rights is what you mean when you say what is stopping everyone going to stage 3 and joining the armed forces. Back in the day there was no such choice for some.

I personally cant believe that anyone is that wound that far up their own arse trying to get popular that they do not know a pretty good deal about the war in Syria. And have not read up through all the news they can, people living in London were/are scared..I know I was when I was getting on the tube into central on a Saturday but I wasnt going to let it stop me going about the daily business. I will say there is a big fault in our democracy. It takes too long to decide anything. It took us about 3 weeks to just decide on joining in on the air strikes.

This is so off topic now it is ridiculous, I only meant to say I and a lot of the people I know aren't hunting for attention on Facebook and couldn't give a shit about Facebook. check my profile and see. But not changing the picture which requires no effort at all due to the prompt and saying no to it just seems daft to me. Say yes...it may spread the word and make more people aware at least. And if it hasn't EVEN done that...what have you lost?

Edited 7 December, 201510 yr by wizardmanjm

Everything short of joining the armed forces, not necessarily actually doing so I mean whatever is the most practical for each person given their own situation. I personally was midway through the RAF application process up until last month (sadly my injuries from the accident means I have another year to wait). Not saying every able bodied person should have the selflessness to abandon their current life and sign up immediately... interesting point you make actually. Without mandatory enlistment, there's no bar for what's a reasonable amount to do. No matter how far you get, someone will always say you can do even more, and someone else will think you've already done more than enough.

I agree with the democracy bit, but my political views are as abstract as my automotive views.

It sounds like the situation is (for what it is) better in London than it is up here in the Northwest. Most of my social circle rarely gets to even reading a proper news article. I don't think anyone does it for attention though. Maybe there are some who do it for the personal satisfaction alone, knowing that you're in some way involved... but I don't think anyone's actually looking to get approval to that extent. Maybe even calling it laziness is a bit harsh. Life is complicated, and we can't possibly do the absolute best we can at every single aspect of it.

Derailed a topic from wanting to fix a Polo into a philosophical debate. Kinda impressive

You're right wizard, I did delete my comments. And that's because I realised this is not the forum for political discussions and was taking it too far off topic

Or the place to just say F**k off to another user? That aside mate I couldn't care less.

Aside from the fact that you reckon I did it to follow a crowd (despite me not knowing everyone even had it when I pressed ok). We all have our own opinions on the picture matter.

Suppose it is time to get back to cars then. Maybe resume giving grief to Vio

If you choose to take each comment personally that is up to you. My earlier comment was aimed at all, not an individual