On 13/05/2021 at 13:15, Pete1 said:

Very interesting thread, and my congratulations to those who have contributed.

I've been looking at these units myself lately, although I don't currently have an issue.

 

I've spent some time trying to reverse-engineer the little circuit boards, and have a few observations that may be relevant.

 

Firstly this only applies to the parts with numbers 6y1959801, 6y1959802, 6y2959801 and 6y2959802.  These four parts cover left and right sides for each of LHD and RHD cars with front electric windows. I've not looked at the variants that include rear electric windows. 

 

On later MK1 Fabias (sometime mid-2004 on) where these were first used I think, they are mounted a different way round, such that the part numbers make more sense on them than they do on the 9N3.  The third digit being a 2 would normally signify a RHD part, and the last digit being a 2 would normally indicate fitment on the RHS of the car, so on a RHD Mk1 Fabia 6y2959802 is driver's side unit , 6y2959801 is passenger side. 

 

Due the units being mounted differently compared to mk1 Fabia when used on Polo, Mk2 Fabia, Transporter and Skoda Roomster, all of these have the opposite, 'seemingly wrong' part allocation, where 6y1959801 is RHD driver's side etc. Everything is opposite.

 

If the third and last digits are the same (both either 1 or 2) it's a master (driver's side) unit, if they are different then it's a slave unit for the passenger side.  

 

They are connected to each other (and no other control units) data-wise  by the LIN bus system which is implemented  by the chips on the boards. Previous generations used CAN bus, LIN is cheaper...

 

The chip that does most of the legwork on these boards is MC33689 (suffix DDWB on the two units I've looked at so far) the sticker with what looks a bit like a QR code usually covers the top of the chip in question.  This chip directly powers the relay coils, generates the LIN comms stuff, and even supplies the 5V rail for the square microcontroller chip next to it.

Datasheet can be found here: MC33689, System Basis Chip with LIN Transceiver - Data Sheet (nxp.com)

 

A week ago I came across a supplier of these chips on ebay that included the word 'vulnerable' in the listing title, but no further details about what the vulnerability might be.

 

Then I found this: MC33689, MC33689D Device Errata - LIN Dominant Issue/Low Voltage Reset Weakness (nxp.com)

 

I can't help wondering if the 'deep' problem with these units all stems from one or both of these built-in hardware flaws, and that the fixes involving replacement relays and capacitors may just be improving the local voltage conditions such that the inherent weaknesses don't show themselves as often or at all? 

 

There's a newer version of the chip - MC33689DPEW - that may be a drop-in replacement, I'm awaiting one in the post to try on a faulty board.

It's non-trivial to change the chip, but potentially a hell of a lot cheaper than buying a new module from the dealer.  This latest chip version is probably what comes on a new-bought-today replacement, but I don't fancy buying one just to see. The suffix DDWB chip can't be ordered new from the manufacturer. (See revision history section at the end of the datasheet).

 

Anyone with a unit manufactured in the last few years (2014 on, say) brave enough to peel back the sticker and see what chip is on there? 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Pete1

I am interested in help with this. 

I am educated in electronics. 

All common problems with this points me forward to conclude that heating the pcb makes it work again (summary of all the treads on various vw, skoda forums) some tried soldering the relay, capacitor or someway heating the pcb, made the power window work again, until the pcb temperature was down again,then the problem started again. 

 

Did you find the problem? I would be interested in hearing so! 

 

On 22/12/2021 at 16:53, Clivvy said:

Hey guys just wanted to post a testimony here regarding Pete1's work.

 

So i used his repair service after spending a lot of time on this common electric window issue. Long story short i refused to pay £200 for a brand new module (because if you look into this problem, it can be the wiring loom, fuses, fuse unit, CCm blah blah). Anyway, after trying everything including buying used modules and having the same issue (and so believing the problem to be NOT the module) I came across Pete's input on this post (which i have visited several times in the past and was interested to see this post revived). I felt that after i had tried lots to fix this (including board level capacitor/relay replacement) it was worth trying Pete's service so I contacted him and we got things organised. Super quick repair and i got communications throughout the process which was interesting and a super quick return to me. 

The module has been in the car now a little over 2 weeks and the windows are perfect again. Before, i could get the windows to work for days on end, sometimes weeks, but they would ALWAYS fail during that period before failing again completely for no apparent reason. This time, i have had consistent working windows despite the rain and cold and I honestly feel Pete is on to something and has indeed found the fix, which if you search around the internet is a real achievement, because lots have tried and failed. Pete is providing a lot of detail regarding what he is doing to fix these, which should provide a lot of confidence to anyone thinking about their none working electric windows. You can save a lot of money when compared to buying a new module and the removal and fitting is really easy to do yourself - you dont need a garage or a dealer to do it just so long as you have a little space to open your car door safely 🙂

 

Big thanks to Pete, im really chuffed my little Polo is all fixed now and ive really enjoyed driving it again.

cheers

Clive
 

 

 

Please, share the solution with us. 

On 12/01/2022 at 16:36, Pete1 said:

Try this on driver's side: 

 

The fact that switch doesn't light up, and this latest test result suggests to me that some broken wires may be found.

Thanks all, going to have a look at the loom tomorrow, 👍

19 minutes ago, Galva said:

Please, share the solution with us. 

The solution?

speak to Pete, send your motor to him and he will fix it....i cant share what Pete has done - thats his business, good luck.

5 minutes ago, Clivvy said:

The solution?

speak to Pete, send your motor to him and he will fix it....i cant share what Pete has done - thats his business, good luck.

I live in Denmark,
It would be easier for all of us DIYs to get the solution posted, or is this about money?

Edited 15 January, 20224 yr by Galva

Galva, I invested a certain amount of money in making myself a comprehensive test rig, with slave module, switch panels, 'mock' door  locks and all the other necessary connections. I also invested a very large amount of my time reverse-engineering the modules and figuring out what goes wrong.

 

So yes, for now it's about  earning some money back for my efforts whilst also providing a repair service that will generally be much cheaper and more reliable than buying over-priced second-hand modules on ebay, or brand new from VWAG.

 

Which car do you have with this module type, if not a Polo?

 

 

4 minutes ago, Galva said:

I live in Denmark,
It would be easier for all of us DIYs to get the solution posted, or is this about money?

im sure it would be easier, but Pete's put in the effort to figure this one out - nobody else as far as I can see has so its a significant amount of work he has put in. By all means speak to him, he may well share that info with you but i cant tell you, because i dont know...

10 minutes ago, Pete1 said:

Galva, I invested a certain amount of money in making myself a comprehensive test rig, with slave module, switch panels, 'mock' door  locks and all the other necessary connections. I also invested a very large amount of my time reverse-engineering the modules and figuring out what goes wrong.

 

So yes, for now it's about  earning some money back for my efforts whilst also providing a repair service that will generally be much cheaper and more reliable than buying over-priced second-hand modules on ebay, or brand new from VWAG.

 

Which car do you have with this module type, if not a Polo?

 

 

That is completely fair Pete.

I have a skoda fabia mk1 with the exact same module like in your polo.

6Y1959801

I found out, that if you heat the PCB to about 30-40 degrees celcius, then the power window will start working again, and if we look around on the internet, we see that a lot of people gets the PCB working after they have been soldering or have been heating the PCB. Some changed the relay or capacitor. So I think the solution should be found that way aroud. I didn't knew your find was secret.

But I found this thread and was hoping we could share a solution.

 

Edited 15 January, 20224 yr by Galva

I don't know what it would cost for you to send me your motor; can you investigate? Even well packed they weigh less than a kilogram, or you could send just the electronics board if that made it affordable. That would be much lighter and smaller, obviously.  Sending in your direction with 'Royal Mail' would only cost approx 10GBP.

 

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, Pete1 said:

I don't know what it would cost for you to send me your motor; can you investigate? Even well packed they weigh less than a kilogram, or you could send just the electronics board if that made it affordable. That would be much lighter and smaller, obviously.  Sending in your direction with 'Royal Mail' would only cost approx 10GBP.

 

 

 

 

 

Could you contact me privately?

Write me

Bakkevej211 a Gmail dot com

Why not use the private messaging system on this forum?

 

Hi ladies and gentlemen, so I’ve been reading through this thread and it’s super interesting! 
I own a vw polo 9n3 Gti 2006 and the windows haven’t worked since buying the car, they only work sometimes if you drive it for about an hour🙄 

I’ve changed the relay and cap and it’s worked! For about 24 hours and now I’m back to no windows. But sometimes the other windows work and sometimes only the driver window works🤷🏼‍♂️ It’s confusing😂

also my global locking isn’t working so if I put the key in the lock and hold it in the lock or unlock position for 10 seconds nothing happens at all, no noises, not a flicker.

any help much appreciated and if Pete is still about I’d be more than happy to send you my window module for you to have a look at and pay what ever the cost, I really need my windows back😂

all the best to everyone😎 
 

Edited 26 January, 20224 yr by Wolfman

When you say "sometimes the other windows work" do you mean that it has rear electric windows too? or did you mean 'other window' singular? Anyway, either way I'd be happy to have a look at the driver's side module for you; I'll send you a private message with where to send it.  

4 hours ago, Wolfman said:

Hi ladies and gentlemen, so I’ve been reading through this thread and it’s super interesting! 
I own a vw polo 9n3 Gti 2006 and the windows haven’t worked since buying the car, they only work sometimes if you drive it for about an hour🙄 

I’ve changed the relay and cap and it’s worked! For about 24 hours and now I’m back to no windows. But sometimes the other windows work and sometimes only the driver window works🤷🏼‍♂️ It’s confusing😂

also my global locking isn’t working so if I put the key in the lock and hold it in the lock or unlock position for 10 seconds nothing happens at all, no noises, not a flicker.

any help much appreciated and if Pete is still about I’d be more than happy to send you my window module for you to have a look at and pay what ever the cost, I really need my windows back😂

all the best to everyone😎 
 

It's not about the relay or cap. It's about the pcb get heat. Try to heat the pcb board again and voila, it works for a short period of time. PETE1 has the answer, but it cost you some money.

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly guys I really appreciate it. yes the rear windows are electric and without sounding stupid what’s a pcb?😂 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Wolfman said:

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly guys I really appreciate it. yes the rear windows are electric and without sounding stupid what’s a pcb?😂 

 

 

 

Google it

Hi guys just an update on the situation, I sent my pcb off to Pete on Thursday and received it back on Saturday and he’s managed to fix the unfixable problem with ease! For me he’s up there with Elon, can’t recommend the guy highly enough😁

…

 

right I’m off for a drive with my windows down😂 thank you everyone for your help😎

 

 

 

Hi all… so after a long Illness and a hip replacement I need to fix my daughters car, as it’s is still having no drivers windows ,

move taken the door card off and undone the connections and we have 2/3 Corroded terminals!… I can’t upload a photo as it has to many MB 🤦‍♂️
I am I worth replacing the unit with a second hand part or trying to clean it up? 

58 minutes ago, Highbury said:

Hi all… so after a long Illness and a hip replacement I need to fix my daughters car, as it’s is still having no drivers windows ,

move taken the door card off and undone the connections and we have 2/3 Corroded terminals!… I can’t upload a photo as it has to many MB 🤦‍♂️
I am I worth replacing the unit with a second hand part or trying to clean it up? 

I would send @Pete1 a PM about his repair service https://www.clubpolo.co.uk/topic/359234-window-motor-repair-service/ 

 

@Highbury, reading back through some of your earlier posts in this thread I see that your window motors will be the earlier CAN-based style which my repair service doesn't cover. 

I might have a spare unit of your type that I could send you to assist diagnosis, though.

Bear in mind that if pins on the motor module are corroded, the corresponding female contacts on the mating loom plug will also tend to have corrosion too, so clean-up will ideally involve these too. 

If you'd like to get some images of the corrosion up, I can post them for you, I'll PM you with an email address you could use to send them to me.  

Cheers, 

Pete

On 21/03/2016 at 10:01, vwfan3 said:

Hi

Is the relay also fixed to the control board ?

If so, where are you getting the relay from ?

Also, please put up a picture of these components on the control board.

Thanking you in advance.

 

@jasnben have you tried changing those bits? I think it will only lead to disappointment for most people.

Hello,

 

I know this is an old thread but I was hoping someone might be able to help me.

 

I have a 2005 9N1 1.4TDI comfortline polo - it's been a bit glitchy for a while but ultimately my drivers side door window has finally given up and it needs a new motor. I'm not sure it can be repaired, the garage tried to fix it, my dad is an electrician and he went through all the wiring so I'm on the hunt now! Just I'm having problems figuring out exactly what to get, I think because it's a comfortline it's not just a case of matching the number (6Y1959801).

The part must have been replaced at some point as it currently has one from 2007 in it (6Y1959801, 400892H, HW002 SW0323, MR6, T4, VW240DDRS), I was just wondering if anyone would know if the 400892H number means anything? I've found the part online with different code and put the car details in and they haven't been a match so I'm just a bit of a loss - I know it's something to do with a sensor (the window will just keep going up or down without the right part).

 

The left side passenger window will open/close if you unlock/lock the door from that side but will only work for a few minutes. Apparently driver side was working after the relay was replaced but when put back in the door it stopped, and it's not working at all now.

 

As I said I'm not sure it can be repaired, just wondering if anyone knows anything about this particular car type, I'm happy to pay for parts/repairs, but I just don't know if anything will match so trying to figure it out if I can!

 

Thanks so much,

Becky

 

Hi Becky, matching 6Y1959801 and VW240DDRS should be enough, I think.

I do offer a repair service in the Entrepreneur section, if you have any trouble finding a replacement that works.

https://www.clubpolo.co.uk/topic/359234-window-motor-repair-service/

 

Hi Pete,

 

Thanks so much! I'm just on my way to work but I'll look up the VIN number and message you later and see if you think you can fix.

 

Thanks again!

 

Becky