Hi, I've got a brand new battery going from full to flat in under 2 hours.  After investigating I think it's the solenoid on the starter staying on.  I'm struggling finding a new starter so my question is,  can I unstick the solenoid or can I put a kill switch mounted inside the car on the starter lead so i can switch it on,  start the car then switch it off while I'm driving?

Tia

Do you mean the solenoid's sticking in place, or that it's being powered all the time?

 

If it's sticking place, it's more likely a mechanical fault, so killing the feed won't make a lot of difference. Taking the starter off and cleaning it will probably solve it.

 

If it's getting powered all the time, on the thin wire to the solenoid, then the problem is in your car's wiring. Most likely the ignition switch. 

 

Don't try to switch the big wire to the starter, and likewise, don't drive the car with the starter still engaged. Either one could lead to a fire. 

Firstly,  thanks for the help and quick reply. It's powered all the time.  Not engaged.  I took every fuse and relay I could find and disconnected the alternator.  The only thing left connected as far as I could see was the starter.  It starts give and drives fine.  Switch car off and the multimeter read out ticks down like a clock and the battery gets warm It's draining so fast. Currently,  I connect the battery when I want to drive and disconnect it when I park up.  Its far from ideal. 

What would your advice be please? 

Just to clarify, and I know this is going to sound stupid, it's the thin solenoid wire you're looking for power at? The big wire has a battery feed all the time.

 

The solenoid isn't relayed, it runs straight from the ignition key switch. I would start by unplugging this, it's a curved multiplug that slides on to the end of the switch. 

 

If that stops the power from running all the time, I'm thinking the contact unit on the switch is faulty (does happen, but doesn't normally have this effect). If it doesn't, then the circuit has a fault elsewhere. 

id expect the faulty component to be very warm ...have a feel around see whats hot , such a big draw should be easy to find

Thankyou all for the support and replies.  I'm very grateful.  You've given me some great ideas to start with.  I'll post my findings.  

Feeling the cabling by hand including or touching the solenoid/starter is a good place to start, as mentioned previously, though  just be careful in case any terminals are getting hot!

 

Disconnections  are the way to go to find the culprit.

 

Here’s  a diagram from the Haynes manual of the starter circuit in case it might come in handy.

 

 

thinking about it , if the starter solenoid was stuck on , wouldnt the starter be operating ? 

6 hours ago, steveo3002 said:

thinking about it , if the starter solenoid was stuck on , wouldnt the starter be operating ? 

You’d think so, unless it’s coil has gone short circuit, but then it wouldn’t start either?

 

Definitely a job for disconnections to see when the high draw current stops.

Edited 26 February, 20224 yr by mk2tastic

Hi, I've been working non stop so haven't had a chance to get under the car and feel for any heat yet but I wanted to keep you updated so you know I'm still at it.  A point I forgot to mention originally,  this issue was happening for weeks and weeks.  I took every fuse and relay out and disconnected the alternator and it was still happening so at this point I paid an auto electrician to look at it.  He had it three days and told me he'd checked it all out and the battery never went flat and it started every day.  Bizarre!  Anyway,  the car was 'fixed I drove it for 3 weeks and it was fine then bang.. came out of work and battery  was flat and the issue is back again.  I only just remembered but thought I best mention it as it could be relevant as you all seem very knowledgeable.  How do I access the plug on the back of the ignition?  I can't seem to find access. 

Cheers for the help!

It's a long time since I worked on one, so I'm half remembering, half guessing.

 

Take the lower plastic cover off the steering column, I think it just unclips.

 

Get under the steering column and look up, you should be able to see the wires going into the back of the ignition switch.

 

The multiplug is a set of 4/5 wires in a row that go into a black, curved plastic plug.

 

I think it just pulls off, literally just slides in the direction of the wires, no clips or anything.

 

Fun fact: This makes old VWs really easy to hotwire 

Check the wiring in the unfused starter/charging circuit for chafing against the bodywork. You might have a cable who’s insulation is failing/has failed and so causing a partial short circuit. It could be ‘intermittent’ due to movement.
 

Until you find the issue I would be tempted to disconnect the battery, if you haven’t already, as it could pose a potential fire risk, especially if you are recharging the battery.

Edited 27 February, 20224 yr by mk2tastic

if its randomly fixing itsself then it could suggest a hefty wire is moving about and touching sometimes ...the whole starter /alternator wiring is unfused - wouldnt be a bad place to start looking 

 

 

Hi,  just giving latest updates.  I disconnected the ignition plug as suggested and battery still draining.  I've felt the starter, solenoid and alternator and all feels Steve Austin... stone cold!  I'm very limited in my automotive skills. I'm not sure how I'd check the circuit on the alternator and starter.  I have a multimeter but only understand a few settings.  

What I'm currently doing is connecting battery in morning,  driving to work then disconnecting for my shift and then doing the reversal after work.  It's far from ideal but battery is only connected whilst I'm driving.  

youtube has many vids showing how to diag this sort of thing....cheap multimeter and observe the draw then pull fuses /plugs until it goes away

 

the rate that its killing a battery means something must be hot ...think how how hot a headlamp gets ? have you pulled the heated rear screen wiring /fuse?  

I assume this problem didn’t start with the fitting of the new battery?

 

If you have a multimeter try the following, Ideally with a fully charged battery. Make sure all the wires are disconnected from the positive terminal, but with the negative earth connected 

 

With the meter on DC volts setting connect across the battery.A good standing voltage should be somewhere  around 12.5v.Connect each wire in turn to the positive terminal, watching the meter. As soon as you connect the wire that feeds the circuit with the excessive draw you will see the meter reading drop and keep dropping., especially if a battery is being drained in 2hrs.I’d start with the thickest wire which goes direct to the Starter motor/alternator and is unfused.

 

Once you have an idea which circuit is causing the issue further investigation can continue into that circuit and what is being fed by it.

 

Edited 27 February, 20224 yr by mk2tastic

 

£10 meter should have this function , well worth owning anyway

try all the engine bay fuses , and relays near the fusebox and there should be some if you remove the glove box ...plus look for any any add on's like an alarm or audio gear  

2 hours ago, mk2tastic said:

I assume this problem didn’t start with the fitting of the new battery?

 

If you have a multimeter try the following, Ideally with a fully charged battery. Make sure all the wires are disconnected from the positive terminal, but with the negative earth connected 

 

With the meter on DC volts setting connect across the battery.A good standing voltage should be somewhere  around 12.5v.Connect each wire in turn to the positive terminal, watching the meter. As soon as you connect the wire that feeds the circuit with the excessive draw you will see the meter reading drop and keep dropping., especially if a battery is being drained in 2hrs.I’d start with the thickest wire which goes direct to the Starter motor/alternator and is unfused.

 

Once you have an idea which circuit is causing the issue further investigation can continue into that circuit and what is being fed by it.

 

That seems a good idea.  👍 

I've taken out every fuse on passenger side where the box was and there were some relays there. I removed those too and tested them. There were two under dash on passenger side too and I took those out.  As far as I'm aware.  I took out every fuse I know of,  and it still kept ticking down on the multimeter. 

The problem was there before the new battery.  When it first arose I assumed battery as it was old and replaced it.  The new battery did the same but as I didn't understand the issue I took it back to the shop and got another new battery. This did the same so I realised it wasn't a battery issue.  

any alarm /radio /immobiler add ons?

 

id try pulling the radio , heated rear window /alternator 

 

not much on the car is there ?

7 minutes ago, steveo3002 said:

any alarm /radio /immobiler add ons?

 

id try pulling the radio , heated rear window /alternator 

 

not much on the car is there ?

No alarm or immobiliser. I started pulling high drain fuses such as heated rear window and then continued till there were no more fuses but the issue didn't go away. 

And yes!  You're right,  there is not much electrical which makes it even more frustrating.  

To everyone who has taken the time and made the effort to help.  It's very much appreciated. Thankyou.  

so all relays and fuses out at same time?

 

how many wires to the + battery post ?  mine has the fat main one and 2 others...could try those if it has more than one 

Yes all fuses and relays out at same time. (As far as I'm aware) mine is the same as yours I think.  I've attached a pic