I have to disagree with philly though, I think this could be just as much fun as a 200bhp G40. It'll probably be no more than 120 bhp, but the sound and throttle response will really make up for the power and torque defecit.

Horses for courses to be honest. The noise wasn't enough for Yoof, so he went for the 200+bhp G40 route.

I'd never have wanted a 200bhp G40 anyway, always had my eyes set on a usable 150bhp...even a little fettled G40 can become a real handful when on less than perfect surfaces. Think when I drove Del's G40 it could have only been about 120bhp, with that in mind I'd expect this set up to be entertaining for a while, certainly more so than the wheezy 75bhp it has now.

Edited 4 July, 200818 yr by Tav

Since I fitted Emerald and remapped the part throttle driving is perfectly usable. Every seems the think the 200+ boys just use the pedal as an on/off switch and spend our time doing 0-100 sprints down the highstreet slamming on the anchors to avoid a collision.

And Tav you will always want more. I must be on a comfortable 200bhp but wouldn't mind going abit faster

Exactly, turbos and Eatons are much more progressive (as long as you're not running a massive turbo of course!) in their power delivery which makes them much more useable than a G60'd or G40'd car. Add an aftermarket ECU into the equation and things get much better - there's a world of difference between mine (Emerald) and Yoof's cars (Digifant) in terms of driveability, but Yoof's K03'd G40 is still more controllable than some of the earlier G60'd G40s I've been in.

Just trying to make the point that ~200bhp in a G40 doesn't mean it's unuseable. If you're coming to Polo Show I'll take you out in my car, currently I've got switchable maps with electronic boost control enabled so I have 7psi (133bhp, dyno proven), 15psi (175bhp, dyno proven) and 18psi (more bhp, butt-dyno lol) maps.

This seems as good a place as any to post up about my new favorite topic...gear selectors!

I started looking for ways to improve the gear shift in the Polo...the two improvements I was looking for were a location closer to the drivers hand + a shorter throw.

After rummaging around for a while looking for something I had seen for sale on an obscure German racing site I came across CAE shifters:

Extremely tasty looking kit but it costs.... 649 euros .... or in old money about £510!!! A bit on the pricey side given the marginal improvement on offer....I think I've seen these in more show cars than proper out and out performance weapons.

I spent some of this morning looking at the Polo gear selector on my car...got the gist of how it works and confirmed my thoughts by looking at the diagrams on the VW parts program ETKA....spark had now been lit in my brain... I spent some time sketching out ideas of how to use standard parts to make a short throw + tall gear turret.

Later in the evening I started sorting out my huge collection of pictures for a reinstall of XP. I have a lot of pictures saved of race interiors and I stumbled across a Mk1 Polo...which low and behold has a short + tall gear selector using stanard Polo parts...

So once I get the suspension finished this week I am going to start trying to put together some similar to the above image...perfect Polo gear shift...here we goooooo! Just need to persuade someone who's handy with a welder to give me a hand, get some suitable material to build the box section for it to sit on, a universal joint or two to allow the selector shaft to point down and cut a hole in the floor...I think...

Edited 22 July, 200818 yr by Tav

I've been thinking about this too, I find that to get a really good position for the gear shift i have to have the seat further forward but I then have the problem of being to close to the pedals and it defeats the object

I dont think it would be too hard fabricating something similar to that picture. Although I havn't got as far as looking at the diagrams so I don't know what else might need fabricating for the higher position of the shifter.

I was locking into the price of universal joints today...seem to be about £15+ each and come in a variety of sizes. I'm going to bring it up on a local forum and see if any of the keen welders want to give it a go...will mean getting rid of center console and making a hole in the floor....but should be worth it. Would like to see any other solutions that people have come up with as well.

Man why don't you just buy a better car? Respect to you for all the effort and cash you're throwing at it, but the mk3 isnt exactly the nicest looking vw, nor the quickest or the best round the twisties. Yeah i've done a few things to mine but there is a point where it just seems a little pointless to me.

Still, good effort with the itb's and I'm sure it will sound awesome. Be interested to see how far the 3F lump can go if you do get carried away with it.

See skatty, this is where we differ.

I'm with Tav on this. I've got a mk2 breadvan which is about the most unlikely looking basis for a performance car you can get. That is why I have kept it and am spending untold hours and money on something that was never designed as a performance car. Its all about FUN. Making and designing something that improves the original concept by far but still keeping the old granny appearances of the mk2 breadvan in my case.

The mk2 Golf GTi is a far better basis for a performance derived vehicle. You can easily convert them to 1.8T power for potentially huge gains and they already have a superb chassis design that with relatively few mods makes them stick like shit to a blanket on the bendy bits. However, the trouble with Golf GTi's is they look like and are hot hatches to start with, so people expect them to be relatively quick. The Polo (particularly mk1-2) have never had this reputation, and rightly so.

I'd far sooner spend my time and money making a slow car very fast rather than buying a much better car in the first place such as the Golf GTi or Peugoet 205 Gti etc. Thats half the fun.

@ Tav, keep us updated on the quickshift ideas. Its something I've thought about but not put anything down in design as yet. Soooo much else to do first, I keep moving the goalposts further and further apart.

I love the idea of a sleeper, but itb's is hardly a discreet choice!

At the end of the day, polo's have never been performance cars and they never will be really, in any meaningful way. Yeah they can go quick in a straight line but it just seems somewhat daft spending so much money for relatively little gains, when spending that same amount on another model would provide much bigger improvements. I'm all for people pushing the boundaries and trying to see if they can go further than the last guy, but at the same time part of me takes a step back and just thinks why bother on a car like this?

But perhaps I'm just in an off mood tonight!

Depends how you look at it really. I prefer to be at the unit working on something than say going out and getting pissed. I know the car I'm working on will never be worth what I've spent on it, both in money and time but you don't do a hobby for any other reason than you get enjoyment out of it. For me a hobby is something you do for pure enjoyment cause theres enough stresses in life and you need something thats just for you, fuck the money side of it!

Why are there so many people on here that own polos have a negative view of them? If you dont rate them, sell it!

I don't understand it, theres always going to be something better then what your spending money on. But you do it because you enjoy it or in a few cases on here, actually like Polo's!

I think the main problem with this site is that there isn't enough people doing different things, doing interesting builds - its all wide wheels and camber. Boring when its day in day out.

Keep up the good work Tav, and to be fair every person I have spoken to that has gone from a Polo to a Golf have said "The Golf is better, but boring"

Edited 24 July, 200818 yr by carver

I love the idea of a sleeper, but itb's is hardly a discreet choice!

At the end of the day, polo's have never been performance cars and they never will be really, in any meaningful way. Yeah they can go quick in a straight line but it just seems somewhat daft spending so much money for relatively little gains, when spending that same amount on another model would provide much bigger improvements. I'm all for people pushing the boundaries and trying to see if they can go further than the last guy, but at the same time part of me takes a step back and just thinks why bother on a car like this?

But perhaps I'm just in an off mood tonight!

The only obvious down side to the Polo is the front suspension set up...taking care of that...so then your left with something significantly lighter than any Golf and with the potential for whatever power you deem necessary. At the end of the day the car eventually just becomes a shell and it's what powers it, suspends it from the ground and who operates the hand/foot controls that matters more.

The only other choices for a car would have been something like a Mk1 or 2 Golf/Saxo/106/AX/205/Fiesta...and I don't really like any of them or see any advantage to buying one...ok so perhaps I'd have saved £500 not buying a new subframe...but I'd have spent the same on all other components. Bare in mind that NO hatch back was ever designed from the ground up as a performance car, they are all absolutely full of compromise.

It's all about smiles per gallon when it comes to driving on the road...it doesn't matter if you have a Saxo and it is apparently quicker round some corners. You might be useless at driving. 90% people don't even make full use of their performance upgrades nor have the ability to extract the full potential from a car...it's just something for them to spend their money on. I've sat in a Polo G40 glued behind an 185bhp EK9 Civic Type R on one of the most challenging B roads in the North East of Scotland...and reigned in by the fact we were using a public road it wasn't going anywhere any quicker, regardless of the flat out acceleration in places where it was safe. Partly down to the fact that Polo was faster at accelerating but also down to fact the driver had the ability to drive the Polo at the same pace as the Civic quite easily. The last 10% of performance that separates a good handling car from a great one should only really be extracted on a track.

There is always someone faster or with something better than you...only really worth losing sleep over if your competing in motor sport. Though saying that I'd be quite happy using a Polo to do hill climbing/sprinting...Nova's and 106's aren't some sort of untouchable fearsome competitor...it might just take a little more effort to make the Polo faster.

I think Mk3 Polo's can look ace, they have great character and I was fully sucked in by the community at home and that still exists on this forum to an extent. It's fun to be original...it's even more fun if you can be original and good at something.

Just because your Polo handles and stops like shit, don't assume everyone else is in the same boat I genuinely enjoy dissecting a good road in it and it's made every passenger utter something a little blue on the brakes.

Side thought: Why is it only M1/2/3 owners that seem interested in the nitty gritty genuine performance improvements/driving...? If someone put the same effort into a Mk4 Polo as some have done with their Mk3's they'd have something really great. Better suspension set up as standard and the capacity for larger brakes and wheels. Only one that really standards out to me was Oli's old G40 Mk4 and I don't ever recall seeing/hearing much about it after he sold it. I made a thread on this a while ago and all most people could do was point at OTT 1.8T conversions.

The mk2 Golf GTi is a far better basis for a performance derived vehicle. You can easily convert them to 1.8T power for potentially huge gains and they already have a superb chassis design that with relatively few mods makes them stick like shit to a blanket on the bendy bits. However, the trouble with Golf GTi's is they look like and are hot hatches to start with, so people expect them to be relatively quick. The Polo (particularly mk1-2) have never had this reputation, and rightly so.

@ Tav, keep us updated on the quickshift ideas. Its something I've thought about but not put anything down in design as yet. Soooo much else to do first, I keep moving the goalposts further and further apart.

1.8T often takes the piss though, local lad did it and he spends most of his time wheel spinning in every direction but the one he wants to go in...rarely do people seem to exercise restraint with those engines and just plop for 40million horse power.

Superb chassis...not really...it's got front wishbones but it's still rocking a solid rear beam like the Polo. It's not light years a head...

GOOD POINT >>> I was hoping posting up the quick shift ideas would generate some discussion from other people...ideas...tips...etc. Hopefully use the forum what it's for and generate something useful from posting up the pictures/ideas. No benefit to me just posting up pictures, looking to get something out of doing it. Some folk are lucky living near other Polo owners in that you might find someone willing to donate some skills + time into helping something like that happen...that's the real benefits of forums I think...not the bitching or glossy picture threads. <<< GOOD POINT

Depends how you look at it really. I prefer to be at the unit working on something than say going out and getting pissed. I know the car I'm working on will never be worth what I've spent on it, both in money and time but you don't do a hobby for any other reason than you get enjoyment out of it. For me a hobby is something you do for pure enjoyment cause theres enough stresses in life and you need something thats just for you, fuck the money side of it!

Totally agree, would rather spend £50 on the Polo than erasing 6 hours of my short term memory.

Why are there so many people on here that own polos have a negative view of them? If you dont rate them, sell it!

I don't understand it, theres always going to be something better then what your spending money on. But you do it because you enjoy it or in a few cases on here, actually like Polo's!

I think the main problem with this site is that there isn't enough people doing different things, doing interesting builds - its all wide wheels and camber. Boring when its day in day out.

Keep up the good work Tav, and to be fair every person I have spoken to that has gone from a Polo to a Golf have said "The Golf is better, but boring"

Word. More interesting projects would excellent...or hearing about more of the on going ones. It's what makes coming on here worth while...not answering the same stupid questions over and over in the tech section or reading the same "whats faster Mk4 16v or Austin Alegro" thread in the Polo Chat.

Edited 24 July, 200818 yr by Tav

Add to the fact that EVERYONE on our local Vw forum has a Golf so we are known as the polo brigade up here haha. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Out of all polo generations i personally find the mk3 polo the most pleasing to look at, followed by the mk5.

I think one of the best things about earlier polos is the fact that they are so easy to work on, just the bear essentials makes it easy.

It's always particularly pleasing improving something that in the past underperforms, to make it better than something that should essentially beat it but doesn't and surprising a few people along the way.

Whenever we are out and about in the polos they never fail to get a bit of attention because they are not at all common up in Aberdeen having only see a few since i got mine and its nice to have something that little bit different. Especially when we are out with Stuarts G40 it gets alot of attention because of its condition and the fact alot of people don't know what it is.

I still remember when Tav took me out for a test of his new brakes, i was considerably impressed at the stopping power, still has a larger master cylinder to go on as well.

i love you tav!!!!! well said!!!

now back to the quick shifts as this is still a very grey area?

and bug off to all the haters!

Edited 24 July, 200818 yr by cheddarcheese

As I stated in my previous post, its BECAUSE the Polo isn't a performance car that I want to make mine into one. I am well aware it'll never be the fastest car round a circuit and certainly not on the road. BUT, and its a big BUT, it will be such fun to be driving something that is sooo much faster than it has any right to be and yet still looks so reserved and staid. No one will suspect it! And that is exactly the point for me. If all I was interested in was performance and handling I'd buy a BMW M3 E46. Quick indeed, but dull because everyone knows of their potential and they're a bit of a luxury barge - hardly edge of the seat stuff in the driving enjoyment stakes.

Tav, I wasn't suggesting the mk2 Golf GTi was the ultimate in chassis development. They are however a very well balanced car that have great handling characteristics. I was just using it as a comparison. The Golf GTi/1.8T conversion done sensibly makes for a great car allround. Of course there are always gonna be those that then utilise a huge turbo to get massive top end power and end up going nowhere slowly.

The amount of money I'm spending on my car (and Tav is spending on his) is downright rediculous, but we're not doing it for financial reasons, its our hobby.

Really interested in the quickshift conversion. C'mon Tav get your thinking cap on!

Edited 24 July, 200818 yr by breadman

i agree with Kam, i'd rather chuck a load of money at my car than drink myself stupid but i do both!

£30 is what i roughly spend on a night out... £30 is what i paid for a set of wheels.

my little gt is my hobby and therefore it gets money chucked at it like any other hobby does. (drinking is not a hobby in my eyes, more like an addiction!!)

i am with Tav, everyone knows the mk3 isnt a performance car, but thats what i like about them, i think its a nice change to see a mk3 race preped or as a minted out show car. Everyone has a tuned up mk3 golf round where i am so i like it when i see somthing different like a GT or a caddy.

I think is tav is doing a kick ass job with this polo, i would love to do this to my gt but the money is abit tight at the min.

As for the quickshift, if you mange to get one fitted to yours would you consider making a job lot and sell them as a group buy??

i am with Tav, everyone knows the mk3 isnt a performance car, but thats what i like about them, i think its a nice change to see a mk3 race preped or as a minted out show car. Everyone has a tuned up mk3 golf round where i am so i like it when i see somthing different like a GT or a caddy.

I think is tav is doing a kick ass job with this polo, i would love to do this to my gt but the money is abit tight at the min.

As for the quickshift, if you mange to get one fitted to yours would you consider making a job lot and sell them as a group buy??

If I could get one made and make it work I'd be keen to share with others who were interested, perhaps provide some drawings/bill of materials or get some of the bits made up...or indeed if someone else makes it work I'd be keen to see how they did it.

Edited 25 July, 200818 yr by Tav

I thin part of the problem with Polos is they are considered a first car.

Like some mates from school started off with old fiestas/corsas move upto escorts/vectras then moved from that to something small and modern. Then something big and modern. Thats what people expect you to do, to buy a car then buy a "better one" where as I just keep buying different Polos or other old cars. Even though I have the Lupo now, I love it. But I couldn't have it as my only car, I want something old to tinker with and play with.

Peoples views on old cars are always going to be the same "why bother" but when you think about it. The amount of money thats been spent to keep that on the car on the road for 20 years probably exceed what we are intending to spend on it. The cost of the car, maintenance, petrol, road tax etc So on the grand scale of what money has been spent on that car, its only a fraction!

I am going to build a polo that is going to make a BMW M3 E46 looks stupid when my polo is up its ass on a track!

and if you are thinking like fuck thats my aim to build something others just don't understand! even if one day its just a polo outer body on a fully space framed chassis and for example a full r32 4x4 set-up i am going to build it! ONE DAY!

i thought my m8 was mad after 6 years he has finally got his 205 mi16 on the road today and spent a around 6 grand on it over the years and that's just the engine and installation also done all by his self with help from his close friends like me and its not really running stupid power! but i now understand!

and he is on the way to pick me up now cant wait!

I am going to build a polo that is going to make a BMW M3 E46 looks stupid when my polo is up its ass on a track!

You might like this...Citroen AX catching then monstering a properly fast Evo at Knockhill...

Car is a bit of a state externally, plenty of dings and dents but it's pretty darn quick for a home brew track day car.

Edited 26 July, 200818 yr by Tav

is that the teal green one? 450bhp supercharged 106 lump in it iirc

is that the teal green one? 450bhp supercharged 106 lump in it iirc

Fraid not...this one has about 240bhp at the wheels from what I've read. It is supercharged though. It was at the last track day I went to but only last 2 laps before retiring with broken charger belts, much the same as Stuart in his G40. I'd only ever seen videos from inside, so I was a little surprised to see how tatty it was outside....definitely a purely functional car.... It's a trailer queen though arrived and left on one I think the guy brakes 106/Saxo's for a living. Was a bit gutted not see it giving it welly round the track, if it's YouTube appearances were anything to go by it'd have done a good job with out pacing a lot of nice cars...some 911's included.

Love the gear shift idea, had been looking at some on cgti before I saw this. Shaping up to be an even better project with the ITBs aswell.