Been having crap braking issues ever since I tried to bleed the front calipers.They were more or less fine just a little spongy. The thing is the nipples did not really seat properly when loosened so air was getting sucked back into the system , so basically I screwed them up. So I went out today and bought an eezibleed kit from local shop for £14 which is a bit steep but basically it is a brilliant system. Only thing is after putting about a litre of Dot 4 through the system which came through constantly clean with no crap/air bubbles the brakes are still naff with loads of pedal travel.

Could I have an air bubble trapped somewhere in the system and what is the best way to get shot of these, is it basically just a case of bleeding the entire system dry then refilling with new fluid or could it be a more serious issue like the Master cylinder.

Cheers for any advice...............

"If it aint broke dont fix it "

Did you bleed the rear brakes too? Make sure that the rear wheel cylinders aren't weeping and ensure the adjusters are working correctly so that the shoes are nice 'n close to the drum. Then bleed the rear brakes.

Failing that, it could be the m/cylinder is getting tired. Press really hard on the brake pedal and hold it there for 15 seconds or so. It should remain in the same position. If it goes down at all, you know the m/c is fooked.

If its a GT/40, try clamping the load bias valve thingy in front of the N/s/r wheel, i used molegrips to hold the lever open.

It's a mk3 1050cc genesis. Think it may well have summit to do with the rear shoes as I remember the brakes going a bit naff after I'd taken off the shoes to swap with new ones then sorta changed my mind as the old shoes still had a bot of life in them. The thing is when I apply the handbrake it does lock both rear wheels so doesnt that mean that the shoes are in the correct position?

Will try the Master Cylinder pedal check tomorrow and check both rear cylinder's for leaks. If it passes those check's then I reckon I must have a trapped air pocket somewhere.

Cheers for replies

when bleeding brakes you should do them all starting from the passengers side rear,rear drivers,front passenger,front drivers essentially working furthest away from the master cylinder back to closest

luke

I remember when I bought mine, the brakes hadn't been bled for ages (why do people never bleed them!) and the pedal always had a 'wooden' feel. Pressing the brake, it was always rock solid, and barely moved...plus they needed a hefty shove to work. Had them bled, and the pedal travel was a good inch and a half more than what they used to be, which was quite disconcerting but they worked a damn sight better. So, it may have been that yours were desperate for fresh fluid.

Other possibilities could be the self adjuster in the rear shoes are not taking up the slack. If there's a lot of air in the system, the extra travel in the pedal will be lost if you pump it quickly.

I take it the pedal isn't traveling so far as to be nearly on the floor, just more than you're used to?

Pumped the brake with the engine off and its solid after 3-4 pumps and sinks to the floor when engine is started so I think everything is fine there. Looks to me like either an air leak somewhere (possible 1 wheel cylinder as other is new). About the brake pedal being wooden mine that strange because mine did feel excatly as you described and the brake fluid was very old so it that could contribute but now the pedal travel now is way too much and it takes more or less 3/4 of pedal stroke before any braking is felt.

Gonna put new a new set of shoes on and make sure the set up is right and check rear cylinder. If that makes no difference then it must be a trapped air pocket , although I reckon it is summit to do with rear shoes.

Cheers for all replies.

when bleeding brakes you should do them all starting from the passengers side rear,rear drivers,front passenger,front drivers essentially working furthest away from the master cylinder back to closest

luke

According to Haynes it says you should start with right rear brake,left rear,right front,left front. I agree with you that brakes should be bled starting furthest away from the cylinder so is this sequence as stated in Haynes just a weird polo thing.

Cheers

Drivers side rear is the longest run from the master cylinder..... as the pipes run down the passenger side then back across the rear axel.

I bleed mine Drivers rear, Passenger rear, passenger front the drivers front.

Drivers side rear is the longest run from the master cylinder..... as the pipes run down the passenger side then back across the rear axel.

I bleed mine Drivers rear, Passenger rear, passenger front the drivers front.

Cheers for clearing that up , I thought it would be drivers rear first. Gonna put some new shoes on tomorrow as car drives and stops fine but there is quite a lot of pedal travel and I know for a fact that even though the shoes still have about a good 5mm left on em they look contaminated from a leaking cylinder which I changed recently.

I had the same problem on my Mk 3 GT, all i did was change my front disc's and pads and mine were ok, was very surprised on the difference.

I got the brakes from GSF!!!

Now got new shoes and pads and still got a fair amount of travel. Did that Master cylinder test again and the pedal firms up after 4-5 pumps and only moves down very very slowly with a hellavu lot of foot pressure so I'm assuming that this normal.

Convinced that there is air trapped somewhere in the system. Check wheel cylinders and no leaks anywhere. Gonna tap all pipes underneath and push calipers back in to see if that produces any bubbles on a bleed (still got 3/4 litre of dot 4).

Also does anyone reckon that bleeding on a steep bank would make a difference ?

Cheers

Now got new shoes and pads and still got a fair amount of travel. Did that Master cylinder test again and the pedal firms up after 4-5 pumps and only moves down very very slowly with a hellavu lot of foot pressure so I'm assuming that this normal.

Convinced that there is air trapped somewhere in the system. Check wheel cylinders and no leaks anywhere. Gonna tap all pipes underneath and push calipers back in to see if that produces any bubbles on a bleed (still got 3/4 litre of dot 4).

Also does anyone reckon that bleeding on a steep bank would make a difference ?

Cheers

It may do - many years ago I had terrible problems bleeding the hydraulics for the clutch on a Hillman Imp. Bleeding at the clutch slave cylinder when it was parked on a very steep slope so it was higher than the fluid reservoir did shift the air eventually.

Another long shot thought is that also many years ago a friend could not get the air out the brakes on his Triumph GT6 no matter what we did. In the end we finally noticed a shed load of movement on a front brake disc as the brakes were applied. The excess pedal travel wasn't compressing air but actually pulling the disc into line due to a shot wheel bearing....

Good luck!

Docbooze did you get to the bottom of your problem?

I replaced the discs and pads on my daughters Mk3 today and as usual it was more work than expected. Near side brake hose was weeping badly where the hose went into the caliper end fitting. So off to GSF for two front hoses (might as well do both as it's a brake bleeding job anway). Usual issues with seized bleed nipples and hose and brake pipe unions...

Anyway got it all back together and got the Ezibleed out to bleed the brakes. Only this time all that would come out of the bleed nipples after some initial spurts of fluid was air!! It was quite a while before I noticed the length of plastic pipe in the ezibleed that is supposed to go from its reservoir cap to the bottom of the reservoir to pick up the fluid had fallen off. In this mode the ezibleed is then very good at doing exactly what you don't want and drives air straight into the hydraulic system. Won't fall for that one again.

Anyway fixed this problem and after 2 goes around the car nice clean fluid devoid of air was coming out of all bleed nipples. After the initial extra travel due to pushing the pistons back up to the new pads and discs the pedal seemed nice and firm.

However, as soon as I started the engine the pedal dropped quite a bit and went quite "soggy". On the road the brakes were initially a little "interesting" with quite a long pedal. However, I have just been out in it again and after a few miles with gentle braking they seem to be firming up nicely. I'm now assuming that all will be fine once the pads (and discs) have beded in fully.

Anyway hoping you got yours sorted too.

90% of the time, log pedal travel is the rear shoe auto adjuster. There is a spring loaded wedge the is supposed to seat the shoes close to the drum and compensate for wear. This has a habit of seizing. Assuming you have checked and cleaned all components, try the following:

1. Reverse at a 'reasonable' speed then apply the handbrake. This causes the wedge to seat properly and could immediately solve your problem. Just make sure you do it somewhere safe!

2. Check the wedges are not topped out (as far up as they will go) as they can hang up on the shoe in this position and will never release.

3. Bleed all lines in the sequence described previously until the fluid is clean. Make sure the compensating infront of the passenger side rear wheel is open (zip tie to hold it should do the trick).

4. Do step 1 again.

If that doesn't sort it you need to start looking at the components for seizure, wear, internal leaks etc, etc.

Hope thats some help.

Andy