..by the time i saw he wasnt moving,and saw the van,i started braking harder - but my lack of experience locked the wheels. I couldnt turn anywhere,i let go and re-applied them but it was too late and i hit the van.

My point is that i wasnt a retard,or being stupid. Id just never been in that position,never had the awareness that it could happen.

All you can do is educate.

I totally agree Walshsea

How are we to know that his dad didnt educate him,and think he had sufficient trust? I'm not saying id give an 18yo the keys to such a car,on matter how close the relationship. I wouldnt,i have common sense. But still,an 18yo is an adult and must make decisions.

I rode motorbikes for years whilst growing up, and was more than capable of handling my uncs circa 130bhp gixxer 1100 at 17/18, its all down to how stupid you are with the possible power you have on tap

I've had fast bikes right from i was 17 (I'm 20 now), i have worked hard for them and I'm no expert but i do know a good bit about them and i respect them and consciously think about what i am doing on them. I know i need to be careful or i'll die, hurt someone, or wreck my bike basically, and i am careful.

But, i would say that most 18 year olds would not know how to handle something fast. Immaturity, inexperience, and simply not understanding the physics of how the thing will behave are all contributing factors to this. Like this M5 guy, he got it bought for him and probly hadnt much knowledge of cars, i on the other hand have always been into cars, bikes and learning about them, and so know more about how to act accordingly and deal with hairy situations that might arise instead of panicking and crashing.

Even though i had fast bikes at 17 onwards i would definitely say that only 1 or 2 of my friends would have been mature enough at that age to handle a fast bike or car, and most of them who are now 20 and 21 still arent mature enough.

Just because the odd 18 year old like me or walshc knows how to respect a fast machine doesnt mean they all do.

Yeah, fair enough this young fella's da may have thought he had enough sense, but if the M5 was given to him as his first car it couldve gone to his head, plus having no experience at all previously would definitely not have helped.

I had fast bikes at 17, but i was riding bikes and driving cars off public roads for years before that, and i was on road on a 50cc for a year when i was 16, so i had some experience. I wouldnt have bought myself a fast bike with no experience even if i could have afforded it cos i know experience is important.

This guy should have been started out on something a little slower, even a 318i or 320i would have been ok if he was sensible enough, and then maybe moved up to the M5 after a year or more, and thats only if he had been messing around with cars for years like me and walshc before he reached legal driving age and knew a bit about them. If i had a son and thought he was as smart as i was at that age, a 320i would be the fastest thing he would get and thats only if he was very lucky lol.

Walsh i definitely think the fact that we were driving off road before we got on road is an important difference between us and the M5 kid, we wouldnt have been ready for quick machines at a younger age if we hadnt been.

Edited 2 August, 200818 yr by forde

^

He says on that forum that he started with a 335 and 'traded it in and paid the difference'.

Even a 335 is probably too much for an 18 year old.

And, anyone can put the blame on anyone. The kid could be blamed for driving like a idiot without due care and attention and therefore killing 4 of his mates but on the other hand his parents could be blamed by the other kid's parents for even trusting their 18 year old son with a £60k 500bhp BMW.

Just comes down to a get-out clause if you like, everyone has to blame someone/something for every situation or occurrence which happens. And in some cases, quite rightly.

Edit to say: I know where MikeyMK is coming from, i had a lowered Polo GT and then was running around in a Clio on skinny wheels and goofy ride height till i got another Polo. I have little driving experience as i only passed in January and i crashed and wrote off the clio 2 weeks ago probably due to my lack of driving experience. Won't bore everyone with the details but I feel that I was lucky as no-one was injured in the accident unlike this American chap.

Edited 2 August, 200818 yr by Coops90

it flew 200foot and then hit a tree... WTF

This guy should have been started out on something a little slower, even a 318i or 320i would have been ok if he was sensible enough, and then maybe moved up to the M5 after a year or more, and thats only if he had been messing around with cars for years like me and walshc before he reached legal driving age and knew a bit about them. If i had a son and thought he was as smart as i was at that age, a 320i would be the fastest thing he would get and thats only if he was very lucky lol.

Walsh i definitely think the fact that we were driving off road before we got on road is an important difference between us and the M5 kid, we wouldnt have been ready for quick machines at a younger age if we hadnt been.

Except thats the thing, the guy already had a fast car, and he said he'd been driving for more than 2 years (so younger than 16 in America, so guessing private roads etc as they say). By the sounds of it, the guy DID have some experience already of fast cars (I think the M5 was at least his 3rd car).

It looks like more that he was trying to show it off. I mean look at Lewis Hamiltons dad. He was revving the shit out of that Porsche to onlookers, and then crashed it.

Edited 2 August, 200818 yr by wizardflake

Less emphasized has been the point of his age. So 18 year olds are retards. I was,i crashed a car when i was 18.

I was doing around 20mph at the time,so that'd mean we'd have to restrict 18 year olds to 15mph.

It was dark,wet,and someone pulled out of a pub car park in front of me. His turning circle was too big,and he got stuck beside a parked black van,which i didnt see at first..

in that case you were just a victim of circumstance, nothing more.

surely there is no way you can say that young people in sporty/powerful cars don't tend to drive faster/show off more than people in 50bhp granny wagons? (excuse the generalization). when i was 18 i got an xr2i, not the most powerful car in the world, but at the time i thought i could outrun any body through the lanes in it and drove it like a nice person. one late October night i was racing a mate though the lanes driving like a idiot as usual, i tried and failed to take a corner at high speed the car under steered, i didn't have the experience to correct it, car meets air+embankment+tree then rolls several times till its sat back in the middle of the road.

i take full responsibility for every thing that happened that night and i have never tried to pass the blame in any way. the thing is my parents had tried to stop me from getting that car saying it was too much for me and theres no doubt in my mind that if i had listened to them a lot of peoples lives would have turned out very different. you could argue that it could of happened no matter what car i was driving, but as it was me in that situation and not you i know you'd be wrong, i had other cars before and did drive a little quick, but the fact this was a 'sporty' car it made me feel invincible and gave me more confidence than i should of had and i drove like a fucking muppet (i know a lot of people that have done the same as well). so having been in the same kind of situation as this lad (albeit on a smaller scale), and being lucky enough to walk away i have pritty strong feeling on this subject.

hindsight is a bitch, theres so many things i'd change if i could, i can't but if legislation was in place to govern shit like this then maybe it would stop other young people throwing theres and other people lives away. Mikey you seem to be against tighter restrictions on new drivers, saying if they keep banning shit then soon we won't be able to fart, thats bullshit, they have been restricting new riders for years, ok not all of them stick to it but thats the risk they take (just like some people choose to drive with no/invalid insurance, not every one plays by the rules). and would you argue that a 17 year old new rider should be allowed to ride and hyabusa on the roads? some might be capable of riding it but 99% won't. it won't stop all crashes it won't even stop most of the crashes, but it would stop some. you can't wrap your kids in bubble wrap and they do have to learn there own lessons, but when there flying though the air at 200mph heading straight for a tree its going to be a very short lived lesson learnt.

rant over

I see your points,but you cant sit there and say you know it wouldn't have happened in a Fiesta 1.4 LX because it would. And at the same speeds. Me and mates regularly hit 80mph in the sticks in our cars,and not one of us had more than 1300cc. There were some serious accidents,with a Metro 1.3 and Escort 1.3 being almost as unrecognisable as that BMW.

Fact is,in the aim to have fun,many youngsters will explore the limits. If you limit them to 50mph,some will crash at 50mph.

And do you limit them? By engine power? The basic Aerial Atom has 158bhp. The M5 in question has 500bhp. Both take 4.5 seconds to do 0-60..

The first thing to go will be any modifications. Yes I'm waving the freedom flag,because 1 person shouldnt suffer for 99 idiots.

Mclovin (stop changing your name too ) you could then counter argue that not all 18year olds are in the same mindset as you were, so why should they be punished?

Just because you wanted to go racing and risk crashing when in a "sporty car", doesnt mean ALL 18 year olds are going to want to do the same, some actually stop and think about possible consequences - time and place and all that jazz

Yes I'm waving the freedom flag,because 1 person shouldnt suffer for 99 idiots.

I demand sigs on here :-)

The only one of us who died was in a standard Nova 1.3SR. It was doing about 10mph through a green traffic light in Northhampton. Young people asume a green light means proceed. That is inexperience,and the answer is not to restrict them. It is to educate.

Someone run a red to the right?

I see your points,but you cant sit there and say you know it wouldn't have happened in a Fiesta 1.4 LX because it would.

i meant in my case, and no i don't think it would of, like i was saying having that car made me feel like jimmy big bollocks and it made me feel like i had some thing to prove, although it didn't make me drive the way i did that was all me, but imo i wouldn't of been hitting them speed's (or feeling the need to) in more of a normal car.

and walsh thats a fair comment not all 18 year olds will have the same mindset as i had, but a lot have and surely theres no denying that? (you just have to look at some of the threads on here to prove that), its not about punishing people, its about giving them a better chance, i'd see it as a sacrifice rather than a punishment, and are you saying that you don't agree with the methods used to restrict motor bikes?

experience is the only way to learn theres no denying that, its just scary to think they only way some will learn is by going through what i went through.

Edited 2 August, 200818 yr by McLOVIN

Mclovin (stop changing your name too )

gotta keep you on your toes mate

and walsh thats a fair comment not all 18 year olds will have the same mindset as i had, but a lot have and surely theres no denying that? (you just have to look at some of the threads on here to prove that), its not about punishing people, its about giving them a better chance, i'd see it as a sacrifice rather than a punishment, and are you saying that you don't agree with the methods used to restrict motor bikes?

No i dont agree with it, at all

Its like being given a rare rembrant, but then having a rule put in place where you can only admire it in a dark room

*edit* oh and you`ll always be shabba babby to me :-D

Edited 2 August, 200818 yr by walshc

No i dont agree with it, at all

Its like being given a rare rembrant, but then having a rule put in place where you can only admire it in a dark room

*edit* oh and you`ll always be shabba babby to me :-D

would you want to admire that in any other kind of room walshy babby?

That is awe-inspiring

What do you see and how do you feel when you look at that dude?

gotta agree with mikeyMK i think, it doens't matter what cars people drive if they wanna act like a dick they will, I'm 19 n one of my m8s used to have a kia pride which isnt the most sporty car but he used to drive like a dick all the tym....crashed into the back of sum1 in a traffic jam coz he was speeding n lcoked his brakes when he tried to stop, if things like evasive maneuvers were in your driving test it would be alot beta, educate people on what to do when things go badly wrong. I don't think it's just age either I've seen people hu should know better driving like loons although it is mainly usyounger drivers.

That is awe-inspiring

What do you see and how do you feel when you look at that dude?

i see an old perv spying on a fat bird thats probably just finished rubbing her muff.

and i feel strangely aroused, but in a really disgusted way tbh, kinda how i'd Imagen feeling if i got a semi after seeing 2 dongs stuck together

That is awe-inspiring

What do you see and how do you feel when you look at that dude?

i see an old perv spying on a fat bird thats probably just finished rubbing her muff.

and i feel strangely aroused, but in a really disgusted way tbh, kinda how i'd Imagen feeling if i got a semi after seeing 2 dongs stuck together

awesome :-D

Thats bollox aswell, about limiting the power untill you reach a certain age, what about race drivers? or other young guns who have been driving for years on private land? obviously they will be able to handle the power.

I rode motorbikes for years whilst growing up, and was more than capable of handling my uncs circa 130bhp gixxer 1100 at 17/18, its all down to how stupid you are with the possible power you have on tap

Just because a few spesh heads want to play silly bastards then why should everyone (under the magical age of when you get to click the ruby slippers 3 times and say "theres no thing like a whole" and instantly have the abbillity to control) be punished?

Sorry mate, I had similar experince to you when I startted driving (not 1100's, but some pretty lairy crossers), and I totally disagree. It doesn't make any sense for it not to work like bikes, with power to weight ratios and the like. Case in point for people with track experience was a lad round this way who was a pretty top notch gokart racer, on the night he passed his test, he put a small hot hatch in a ditch in a bad way.

you can quite easily kill a family of people with a 1 litre polo as well as a bmw m5.

yes obviously fatally irresponsible of parents and drive but driving like an idiot is driving like an idiot in any car

^

He says on that forum that he started with a 335 and 'traded it in and paid the difference'.

Even a 335 is probably too much for an 18 year old.

Yeah arent they a 3.5? My mates da had one it was rapid. 320s and 318s are relatively slow cos of their weight so could have been ok.

I think the kid was a loon in a car, one of those guys who just drives flat out all the time, if you look at the thread his original post is about how he is having rough shifting when banging up through the gears to 140mph with all the sport settings on max! Kinda takes away from the argument that he was sensible and this was a one off occurence.

JohnB, you are less likely to kill a family in a 1 litre polo. It weighs less and will be doing a much slower speed than an M5 in the same situation. Also, you are much less likely to rag it. I know when i drove a 1 litre i was like "Why put the foot down? Itll just use more petrol and make more noise at the same speed". And if its not really sporty you dont want to anyway. Plus your mates dont jump into your 1 litre polo and egg you on to show them "what this baby can do" lol

Yeti i agree, i know some guys who raced stock cars and stuff and they couldnt keep their foot from the floor when they hit the road, cars getting wrote off everywhere...

Edited 2 August, 200818 yr by forde

JohnB, you are less likely to kill a family in a 1 litre polo. It weighs less and will be doing a much slower speed than an M5 in the same situation. Also, you are much less likely to rag it. I know when i drove a 1 litre i was like "Why put the foot down? Itll just use more petrol and make more noise at the same speed". And if its not really sporty you dont want to anyway. Plus your mates dont jump into your 1 litre polo and egg you on to show them "what this baby can do" lol

thats exactly the point i've been trying to make.