hello, basically i just tried to MOT my polo with cut springs.

they didn't like it and it was a fail.

i rang up my MOT'er and he gave me the heads up which i think is usefull for other people on here etc.

It is FULLY ILLEGAL to cut springs on a car, he specifies there dangerous, the ministry really don't like it when its done.

He layed off an employee for missing this on and MOT before and its loose your license time if you get caught.

his words not mine.

just a heads up for people thinking they can MOT a car with them (yes, thats including me).

personally from an engineers view i think they are safe. yes you have issues with the shock being longer than the spring but it does work and is proven to work.

Jules

Edited 1 October, 200817 yr by julian

If its FULLY LEGAL why did he lay of a guy for missing chopped springs?

hello, basically i just tried to MOT my polo with cut springs.

they didn't like it and it was a fail.

i rang up my MOT'er and he gave me the heads up which i think is usefull for other people on here etc.

It is FULLY ILEGAL to cut springs on a car, he specifies there dangerous, the ministry really don't like it when its done.

He layed off an employee for missing this on and MOT before and its loose your license time if you get caught.

his words not mine.

just a heads up for people thinking they can MOT a car with them (yes, thats including me).

personally from an engineers view i think they are safe. yes you have issues with the shock being longer than the spring but it does work and is proven to work.

could this be stickied maybe?

Jules

That MOT tester is an idiot.

All springs are cut.

my post says its ilegal, not legal.

he was sacked for missing the fact that the car he MOT'd had springs that had been cut.

how is he an idiot? cut springs as in to lower your car you spoon.

how about no springs at all??? i heard mini's go through without springs...like solid....

Section 2.4 (Suspension) of the MOT Inspection manual gives as a "Reason for Rejection" (MOT Speak for failure) the following:

"Inadequate clearance of the axle or suspension with the bump stop or chassis, or a suspension unit so weak that the body or other part of the vehicle fouls a road wheel or would do so if the vehicle was laden. Note: a missing bump stop rubber is not a reason for rejection. "

or

"Deliberate modification which significantly reduces the original strength..."

I think VOSA would generally expect a tester to fail cut springs on one or other of these grounds.

my post says its ilegal, not legal.

he was sacked for missing the fact that the car he MOT'd had springs that had been cut.

how is he an idiot? cut springs as in to lower your car you spoon.

So you're differentiating between a spring cut in a factory to lower a car and a spring cut at home to lower a car? What's the difference? You, my man, are a spoon, for filling the forum with duff information. I recommend you search the forum before spouting rubbish.

And borris, how can you interpret a shorter spring as significantly reducing strength? Admittedly, if you heat up the spring to much during the process (ie, turn it cherry red hot, not just a bit warm) then the spring could weaken, but the likelyhood of that happening with an angle grinder or hacksaw is pretty much nil.

Any well educated MOT tester, not a numpty fitter, will be able to tell the difference between a safe cut spring and a cut spring that is doing fuck all. They likelihood is that he will fail the car on inadequate clearance with the bumpstop or spring falling out of seat if he feels the cut spring is too short.

You're MOT tester is a numpty, and you should find somewhere else that isn't going to rip you off for a retest when there's nothing wrong.

And borris, how can you interpret a shorter spring as significantly reducing strength? Admittedly, if you heat up the spring to much during the process (ie, turn it cherry red hot, not just a bit warm) then the spring could weaken, but the likelyhood of that happening with an angle grinder or hacksaw is pretty much nil.

Any well educated MOT tester, not a numpty fitter, will be able to tell the difference between a safe cut spring and a cut spring that is doing fuck all. They likelihood is that he will fail the car on inadequate clearance with the bumpstop or spring falling out of seat if he feels the cut spring is too short.

You're MOT tester is a numpty, and you should find somewhere else that isn't going to rip you off for a retest when there's nothing wrong.

You may be right - I just thought people might be interested in what the MOT Inspection Manual actually says.

As it happens I am visiting VOSA tomorrow on other matters so I'll seek clarification from a couple of VEs I know (Vehicle Examiners - these are the guys ultmately with the power to strike off testers and Vehicle Testing Stations) for an off the record but nonetheless official view.

As it happens I am visiting VOSA tomorrow on other matters so I'll seek clarification from a couple of VEs I know (Vehicle Examiners - these are the guys ultmately with the power to strike off testers and Vehicle Testing Stations) for an off the record but nonetheless official view.

That would be great :) Retro-rides.org have had some answers from the VEs about it but it wasn't really a straight answer. They basically put it down to the ability of the MOT tester to judge what is dangerous and what isn't.

Also, the part he quoted from the MOT book thing, says its a fail if the suspension unit causes the wheels to foul if laden, so that means seriously lowered cars??

how about no springs at all??? i heard mini's go through without springs...like solid....

hmmm classic minis? as std they DO NOT have springs, they have hydrolastic susp or dry doughnuts.

it woudl be impossible to get the car anywhere without the doughnut, the sump woudl be sat on the floor, i needed to move my old project and had no doughnuts s built it up lowere it down and on the floor it sat.... i just had to take the shocks outa need replace them with solid pieces of wood, but thats another story.

The last two cars i put through an mot passed with cut springs. In both cases,the ends were rusted,covered in dirt,and i dont see how the tester was supposed to be able to tell they were cut.

It may have had something to do with them being only mildly cut,instead of being like chopped in half..

thats the thing...i think say one coil off the end will be okay , its when theyve been chopped in half and rattle up n down over the damper is when they moan

Mine went through the mot with cut springs. :-)

It was put down as an advisory. As long as when the car is is jacked up or is in full extent of the shocks travel the spring dont come out of there seats and cups then it wont be a problem.

I've had cars go through mot's with the springs being cliped in at the top of the housing and on the spring seat on the shock.

Idealy dont cut your springs

Everything is illegal these days, i got arrested for raising my eyebrows the other day.

Seriously though banded steels aren't legal but people have them, show plates, tread out of arches, insanely loud exhausts, mods not declared to insurance company. There is a lad near me that has a nova with a c20let engine in (2 litre 16v turbo) and it is still registered and insured as a 1.4. He just says if i get in any trouble i will just take it out and put my old engine back in

Basically so much stuff is against the law that you would have to be a right gimp to listen and conform to it all. I understand from a safety point of view that cutting a spring in half is a bad thing. The odd coil and avoiding driving like a complete tool surely isn't going to harm anyone.

**also i will be cutting mine down but i won't be expecting it to pass an mot. Won't be jumping or cornering at 70 so i am sure everyone else on the road will be safe.

Edited 2 October, 200817 yr by demolover

ye well i was just saying!!

on my MOT fail sheet it says:

Front offside spring incomplete

Front nearside Spring incomplete.

yes my car failed on these things. it was lowered considerable, i.e around 3-4 coils.

so if your tester is a donkey and misses it ye all good in the hood. and depends whether they think its safe.

but saying that i chucked my bike carbed rocco thru and nothing was mechions about the two zip ties holding the battery to the chassis leg, or the german plates. etc.

so ye its kinda luck of the draw.

Mine went through the mot with cut springs. :-)

It was put down as an advisory. As long as when the car is is jacked up or is in full extent of the shocks travel the spring dont come out of there seats and cups then it wont be a problem.

I've had cars go through mot's with the springs being cliped in at the top of the housing and on the spring seat on the shock.

Idealy dont cut your springs

but dont coilovers do exactly that when u jack them up? dont teh springs wobble about if they are low?

Everything is illegal these days, i got arrested for raising my eyebrows the other day.

Seriously though banded steels aren't legal but people have them,

arent they legal now? with wide wheels u get a certificate to say they are legal and road worthy dont you?

ye well i was just saying!!

on my MOT fail sheet it says:

Front offside spring incomplete

Front nearside Spring incomplete.

yes my car failed on these things. it was lowered considerable, i.e around 3-4 coils.

so if your tester is a donkey and misses it ye all good in the hood. and depends whether they think its safe.

but saying that i chucked my bike carbed rocco thru and nothing was mechions about the two zip ties holding the battery to the chassis leg, or the german plates. etc.

so ye its kinda luck of the draw.

Wasn't having a pop mate. Any new info is good info. My point is that car mods and the law seems to be a bit of a grey area. I'm still going to do it. Not going to hack the springs in two or drive like a idiot so i am guessing that there will be no real issue. The state of some of the tyres i see on cars is more worrying than the odd coil lopped off a spring.

:-)

Regards banded steels. Just had a look at wide wheels and they say you get a certificate but does this make it all legal?? Unsure really, someone will know more i am sure.

I have seen some scrubbers round Bradford with banded steels on their cars and i asked him who did it and he said "a mate". Home brew banded steels are the future

So you're differentiating between a spring cut in a factory to lower a car and a spring cut at home to lower a car? What's the difference? You, my man, are a spoon, for filling the forum with duff information. I recommend you search the forum before spouting rubbish.

Surely a proper lowering spring is actually made shorter, not just cut shorter

^^ That difference is the spring rate - which is a matter of personal choice,though the damper must be suitable.

Also,the seat/taper. You can only cut a spring which does not taper at the end to be cut,so the cut end still sits in the seat correctly,is still the same size/shape. Many springs are tapered,including the top end of a front Polo spring.

OK I finally got to speak with some friendly VEs and SVEs on this matter.

The story I got was that shortening a spring is NOT an automatic reason for an MOT failure.

Indeed one said he used to do it for his rally car!

It seems the key factor is that it should not be cut so much that the suspension could easily bottom out on the bump stops or foul in some other way.

Also you need to remember that for an MOT the Tester is not allowed to dismantle anything so it is based only on what he can see.

So if he sees a badly butchered spring held in place with jubilee clips or gaffer tape it will fail.

However, if one coil has been cleanly cut off and everything sits neatly as it should (but just a bit lower) then there should be no issue.

Remember too that if you think the Tester is taking the piss ask him/her for a VT19 form and appeal the Testers opinion to VOSA (if you dare!).

Interestingly I gather most appeals are so called "Inverted" Appeals from the new owner of a vehicle which has an MOT and but the new owner now thinks should have failed!. Mostly eBay purchases I guess...

Not sure this helps but there you go...

in regards to differentiating between cut springs and factory cut lowering springs. The factory cut ones are also stiffer so they are safe and fully legitimate

i always figured that cut springs sometimes popped outa the seats when they are cut a lot?

Not just cut springs, any spring that isn't held under compression when the suspension is fully extended will do the same. Shocks need shorter rods as well to avoid this happening. You may get through an MOT with cut or unmatched springs and shocks if the tester isn't looking too closely. If your cars arse is dragging on the ground though then he's likely to pay more attention to your set up and as stated at the start of this thread, expect a fail.

in regards to differentiating between cut springs and factory cut lowering springs. The factory cut ones are also stiffer so they are safe and fully legitimate

Chopped springs are stiffer than non-chopped springs. Fact.