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DubbPrince

HOW TO- Convert 6N/6N2 to Rear Discs!

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DubbPrince

Right, after a lot of people asking me how to do this over the years. I decided to construct this how to guide for you DIY'ers out there...for the less confident of you, i still offer a garage service conversion.

This guide does not cover the mechanical basics of working on such a task- jacking up, supporting the vehicle or the tools required- although just an idea for you: A range of sockets- 13mm-20+mm, caliper rewind tool, brake fluid bleeding kit, brake fluid as well- DOT 4 is recomended.

To begin with, you must have the following parts to hand to be able to successfully convert your polo 6N or 6N2 (this process is the same for any other polo/golf/lupo etc but would require modifed handbrake cables or brake lines):

In the photo below is the following: disc dust shield, stub axle, caliper and carrier, centre hub inc. bearing and hub nut with bolts to bolt the carrier to the stub axle. Missing parts are handbrake cable and brake flexi/metal hoses (both of which are pictured further down)

382808555.jpg

Driver side brake line:

382808550.jpg

Passenger side brake line:

382808548.jpg

Now then...to begin with you need to remove your drum setup!

First remove the centre dust cap with a flat head and ease it off leaving the caged nut and split pin:

382808524.jpg

382808527.jpg

After that, you can wind off the bearing nut:

382808528.jpg

382808531.jpg

And then carefully wiggle the drum off (PLEASE ENSURE YOUR HANDBRAKE IS DIS-ENGAGED)...some persuasion with a large flat head and hammer may be required, thus leaving this:

382808535.jpg

Now...the centre ring covering the four nuts around the centre of the drum can be removed...

At the same time, pinch the flexi hose from under the car where the hard line pipe attaches from the drum...this will ensure minimal fluid loss!

Now undo the solid brake hose from the flexi pipe- this would leave the hose still on the car:

382808541.jpg

382808537.jpg

Now...unclip the metal hoses either side of the car which reside on the axle itself! No need to undo them at the drum...

Also, lift off the handbrake surround from inside the car and with a couple 10mm spanner- undo the 4 nuts holding the cables taught.

After these are off completely, get under the car and yank them out of the metal tubes (a set of mole grips will be useful here): THE METAL TUBES STAY ON THE CAR!

382808547.jpg

After the handbrake cable is off at the handle side and the brake lines are unclipped and undone from the cars flexi pipes you should have a pair of redundant drums:

382808553.jpg

Now comes the fun bit! Ensure you have your disc setup ready for each side (they are side specific!):

The brake lines for the disc setup look identical to the hardlines you removed BUT have a flexi pipe behind the caliper as well as on the body of the car:

382808559.jpg

The above photo shows the handbrake cable has been re-attached at the handle side and the brake line is also in place and attached to the flexi hose you left previously (this is still pinchedto stop fluid leaking).

Following that, you just begin to fit your parts...starting with the dust shield and stub axle which bolt on together:

382808561.jpg

Then slide on the hub with bearing enclosed and re-fit the large centre bearing nut (tighten this to the correct torque with the car on the ground):

382808560.jpg

A brand new disc then goes on:

382808562.jpg

Followed shortly by the caliper carrier- here i suggest strongly that you use a small coat of a few threads of the carrier holding bolts so they dont come loose:

Photo from Rear:

382808571.jpg

Photo from Front:

382808573.jpg

The pads were copper greased on the rear to stop squeeling:

382808575.jpg

382808580.jpg

Here comes the messy part...you may require a caliper rewind tool to wind the piston back in to allow you to fit the caliper over your new pads/discs and here are a few photos of it in action:

382808564.jpg

382808565.jpg

382808568.jpg

At the end of that, i did copper grease the parts that the pads would be moving against to stop any squeeling that may occur (as you can see the caliper carrier also recieved a bit of rub down with sandpaper where the brake pads would sit and was also greased):

382808569.jpg

Here is a photo of the caliper fitted up with the brake line and handbrake cable attached:

382808582.jpg

382808583.jpg

Please please remember NOT TO undo the bleed nipple completely! and do not touch it until you are ready to bleed the brakes of any trapped air. You will require an 11mm spanner for this to be done.

Also please be aware that there is a clip at the base of the handbrake cable that attaches to the base of the caliper- this holds the cable in place- i sadly didnt get a photo of this.

I am willing to make changes to this FAQ if it helps anyone out, please could a MOD move it into the FAQ section...cheers! Sanj.

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stixie mk4

Amazing guide! Absolutley NEEDS to be stickied!

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DubbPrince

CAN A MOD PLEASE STICKY THIS... :roll:

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graffboy
Amazing guide! Absolutley NEEDS to be stickied!

this

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grungeisdead

Top Guide Sanj.

I've asked a mod to move it for you, so should be in the FAQ section soon :thumbsup:

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Yeti

Done. Is there any issues with the back of the car being overbraked by this? Don't know if 6N/6N2 have a bias valve on the axle or rely on regulators in the drums? Any tips on suitable donor cars for the brakes?

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Mister D

good guide, but i would never clamp a flexi with a pair of vicegrips!

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Mk2 olop

To stop fluid dripping DO NOT grip any hoses,

Just prop your brake pedal up as far away from the carpet as possible.

I use the top bar off my trolley jack,

above the throttle bellow the brake and above the clutch.

Closes of the master cylinder so no leaky leaky.

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mini_mayhem

what car did the parts come off?

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DubbPrince

The parts came off a Polo GTI (any from 2000-2002) but you can also use lupo GTI parts as well. Theres nothing stopping you bolting on a 5 stud version from a golf mk4 or seat leon etc...

The calipers on this specific setup came from a 2001 Seat Leon Cupra- This DID over compensate on the braking so the bias valve had to be adjusted to allow this to be toned down more since the pistons on these calipers are slightly larger. The carriers were still the polo GTI ones.

It is the same principle if you prefer to use the older Seat Ibiza setup off an Ibiza around 1994-1999- These use the older style prone to rust calipers and is a slightly heavier setup.

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prankstar2003

Just found a set from a mk2 16v golf gti. V. rusty, but should clean up nice.

Where can i get a bias valve?

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haz911

Is it easier to do a full Rear Axle change to a GTi one? Or not?

Cheers

Harry

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AMD_Man

Did this a few weeks ago and have a few things to add:

Conversion:

Firstly, this will not fit under standard 13" steels without modification, maybe this is obvious but I failed to click and after spending 4 hours doing the conversion was a little miffed when my wheels didn't fit back on haha! Whether you chose to whip out the grinder.. well on your head be it.

I had a complete 6N rear beam with disc conversion but chose to keep my existing beam and swap the stub axles, this was just because I imagined it possibly being easier and meant I could do one side at a time, but I know others have swapped the beam before. Whether a 6N2 beam is a direct swap, I'm not sure!

I believe there is a bias valve on the beam when drums are fitted, at least there is something that I can only fathom as being a bias valve, correct me if I'm wrong.

I used an impact driver on the stub axle bolts as they were well and truly stuck on the donor beam, soaked the ones on the car itself for a day in GT-85 and they came off pretty easily.

MONEY SAVING TIP - After looking at caliper rewind tools, which seemed to start at around £30 (machine mart and halfords) I did a little investigating and found that an angle grinder disc removal tool (the one to loosen the lock nut) fits onto the pistons perfectly, spot on :D

Also, I used a brake pipe clamp tool which seemed to work okay, can be seen in one of the pictures.

Afterthoughts

Pedal travel seems to have increased a little but I'm confident I've bled all the air from the system, just feels like there is a little more dead movement than before, I guess the volume of fluid to push out two pistons is somewhat more with the disc brakes. Brakes themselves feel responsive and firm though, front wheels lock first, as they should.

The handbrake is incredible, after driving the car for 3 years with drums at the back, it's an incredible difference. Stops the car dead, and not that I endorse this, but it'll lock the rear wheels whilst going along :p

Took a bit of fiddling to get the outer shroud of the cables to fit inside the guides mounted to the chassis, this is important as if they do not go all the way in you'll have barely any adjustment at the handbrake, little bit of washing up liquid seemed to help ease them in.

Pictures

DSC00037.jpg

DSC00039.jpg

Unfortunately I forgot to take any other pictures, but if you have any questions fire away!

Edited by AMD_Man

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Sdub

will be needing this guide soon sanj ;)

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DubbPrince

just to add:

1.) the 6N2 axle DOES NOT fit the 6N's...you have to remove everything from the donor axle and fit onto yours unless of course you own a 6N2 or already have a 6N beam-preferably a 16v mk4 one which has an inbuilt ARB.

2.) there is a brake bias valve yes! but if you are taking discs etc off a donor then adjustment should be minimal- i would say it wouldnt change much.

3.) GTI's came with 15's standard...i would definately say 14" minimum wheel wise.

4.) I fitted this conversion to two 16v mk4's so the 16v would use a differently sized master cylinder/servo hence lack of pedal travel...but again, if you want you can swap this out and even fit a G60 master cylinder/servo- mine was the same size so i kept the 16v polo one.

5.) calipers from a golf mk4/seat leon or any vehicle in that sort of age range will fit but consider the brake biasing being wrong!

Thank you for adding to the topic...

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Col
just to add:

5.) calipers from a golf mk4/seat leon or any vehicle in that sort of age range will fit but consider the brake biasing being wrong!

Calipers are the same fit the polo but mk4 golf has different caliper carriers, as I've found out recently! must be to do with different spacing of the bearing/flange face. Polo ones are flat whereas the golf ones had a kink in them. Can get some pics if anyones interested.

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Jaco2a

if you stuggle to pull the drum off, bolt a wheel to it to get more leverage

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FitzleBerry
if you stuggle to pull the drum off, bolt a wheel to it to get more leverage

so let me get this right? i dont actually need another axle? just the hanger and all that stuff Etc.. Etc.. can i use the 6n/6n2 brakes off the front to fit on the back?

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AMD_Man

You don't need another rear beam - it won't fit anyway

What you need is the stub axles outwards, so that includes: hubs, caliper, carrier, discs, pads, flexi brake lines and 6N2 GTi hand brake cables

You need 6N2 rear disc brakes as the donor parts, fronts are different sizes

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FitzleBerry
You don't need another rear beam - it won't fit anyway

What you need is the stub axles outwards, so that includes: hubs, caliper, carrier, discs, pads, flexi brake lines and 6N2 GTi hand brake cables

You need 6N2 rear disc brakes as the donor parts, fronts are different sizes

ahh right cheers man! you just made it a whole lot easier! haha.. there is one down the local! might have to get some bits later!

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ventmi

I'm doing rear disc conversion for 6n. Is it needed to change the brake pressure regulator too? I've read lot of discussion about this conversion but not figured out that. Thanks for your answers!

Edit: Don't you know or don't you understand the question?

Edited by ventmi

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wicchris

Just to help i did the conversion as well but i used m2 golf gti parts older set up but parts seam very easy to get hold of. The list of things you need are

late mk2 golf gti stub axle x2

late mk2 golf gti carriers x2

late mk2 golf gti calipers x2

late mk2 golf gti back plates x2

late mk2 golf gti disc 226mm (with the bearing in the disc) x2

late mk2 golf gti bearing kit x2

late mk2 golf gti pads

late mk2 golf gti flexi brake hoses

6n2 hand brake cables x2

you will also need a small bit of coper brake pipe and a 4 unions to conect the flexi brake hose from the caliper to the flexi brake hose already on your 6n rear beam.

Just to add last you may want to use a mk2 golf gti brake load valve to set the same brake split the set up was built for, also if the car is lowerd it will think there is alot of weight in the boot and it will put more braking force to the rear, this may cause the back to lock :(. To stop this you may have to have a play with the rear brake load valve.

Here is what i used the whole set up, just to add i used braided flexi brake hoses not the ones on the caliper in the pic and i never fitted the back plates so i could run 13" wheels :)

KGrHqZHJwE-dd40O8ZBPrDEL3Mkw60_12.jpg

rear.jpg

2012-05-29132250.jpg

2012-06-12192518.jpg

Edited by wicchris

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alratcliffeffl

Apologies for the year long bump, but was wondering if anyone knows how much a garage would charge for doing it? Also how much all the parts cost around abouts? Don't hate me for bumping :(

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