I've never been to good at understanding how much cars are worth, and this is espcially the case with engine transplanted cars.

I know breadvan's shouldn't be that expensive at all, how much more would a 16V engine whapped in it make it worth?

I've been looking at a solid breadvan with 10 months MOT, not excessive amounts of rust which was probably worth about £3/400 when standard. The 16V engine is claimed to be on 80k miles with service history from when it was in it's donor car.

Anyone ever bought or sold one of these or a car with a similar conversion?

Sorry if this thread is a repeat or whatever..

more details needed tbh. the afh will make it more desirable but how much more desirable will depend on what else has been done to the car.

for example is the engine running on bike carbs? has the suspension and brakes been upgraded as well? has it got alloys fitted to it?

if it's just a standard bready with a afh in it i can't see it being worth more than 5-600, but as with every thing, it's only worth what some one is willing to buy it for.

guy did you add scene tax in that estimate

my personal view is its only worth something if its got a shitload of history and/or receipts with it. if its just a bready with an engine and a current mot cirt then i would expect to pay a couple of hundred quid as i would be wary of how much abuse its had and how good of a job it was when the engine was swapped. there are a lot of capable people out there but there are also a lot of pricks who just dont care when doing things like that.

if its got a good bit of history and a load of receipts and its not brought from round the back of some flat then 500+ depending on condition. youve got to remember the engines are ten to the dozen at the moment so it wouldnt cost that much to do it yourself.

if the car is in very good condition, in a good colour and in standard original condition then that is worth 500-600 going off what good mk2 seems to be listed for these days. If the engine conversion has been done well, it has some good choice mods and it looks 'professional' then I would say £1000+ish.. Which is what GT's seem to be selling for. And I know what I would prefer.

However someone might say how can a mk3 be worth less than a mk2.. etc. This is all depending on what has been done to the car and who is looking as its only worth what someone will pay. More people would pay £600 but only 1 £1000 but you just have to find them. I agree with Rono that it does have to have buckets of paper work for it to show maitainance/work done for the top price.

Mk2's are becoming rarer and to find one in very good condition which you wouldn't have to spend money on is getting hard. This means prices rise.

You got any pictures and spec?

if the car is in very good condition, in a good colour and in standard original condition then that is worth 500-600 going off what good mk2 seems to be listed for these days. If the engine conversion has been done well, it has some good choice mods and it looks 'professional' then I would say £1000+ish.. Which is what GT's seem to be selling for. And I know what I would prefer.

However someone might say how can a mk3 be worth less than a mk2.. etc. This is all depending on what has been done to the car and who is looking as its only worth what someone will pay. More people would pay £600 but only 1 £1000 but you just have to find them. I agree with Rono that it does have to have buckets of paper work for it to show maitainance/work done for the top price.

Mk2's are becoming rarer and to find one in very good condition which you wouldn't have to spend money on is getting hard. This means prices rise.

You got any pictures and spec?

for starters its not hard to find good condition mk2s these days, it is however hard to find good ones that ain't massively over priced.

Secondly how can you use a GT as a comparision to get a value for it? it isn't going to be worth any where near what a GT of simular condition is worth unless the GT is a breadvan which just ain't disirable, when was the last time you seen one of those sell for 1k? I was only asking 1k for my mk3 coupe with the same conversion, coilovers, alloys and a few other mods. Mk2 breadvans are not sort after and don't sell for much, no matter what engine they have in them.

Thirdly paper work is meaningless, just because you have every mot doesn't mean it hasn't been thrashed, and just because it hasn't got any paper work doesn't mean it hasn't been looked after. People that rely too much on paper work are mugs tbh, these are the sort of people that rouge traders make a killing from. You can make yourself a 'genuine' full service history for your car only using stuff bought from ebay ffs

Yeah iv never understood it when people only rely on paperwork.

Yeah it probably means alot when were talking about £10,000+ cars,

But it when it comes to something like a 25 year old polo, Who really has all the paper work asscosiated with it? I dont, And i know my cars been looked after extremely well, I new it as soon as i sat in it and took it for a test drive.

Also, if you went to view a car that had been advitised as having no history, Its not hard to see if its been well looked after or if its been ragged.

And i think its fair to say that no amount of paper work is going to tell you what kind of condition engine components are in.

Max

for starters its not hard to find good condition mk2s these days, it is however hard to find good ones that ain't massively over priced.

Secondly how can you use a GT as a comparision to get a value for it? it isn't going to be worth any where near what a GT of simular condition is worth unless the GT is a breadvan which just ain't disirable, when was the last time you seen one of those sell for 1k? I was only asking 1k for my mk3 coupe with the same conversion, coilovers, alloys and a few other mods. Mk2 breadvans are not sort after and don't sell for much, no matter what engine they have in them.

Thirdly paper work is meaningless, just because you have every mot doesn't mean it hasn't been thrashed, and just because it hasn't got any paper work doesn't mean it hasn't been looked after. People that rely too much on paper work are mugs tbh, these are the sort of people that rouge traders make a killing from. You can make yourself a 'genuine' full service history for your car only using stuff bought from ebay ffs

But thats the thing they are massively over priced to you.. as you know how much they used to cost. But as time goes on things change.. prices change. The older a car get the more the potential there is for them to increase in value. If cars start to sell at those values then that is the value of the car whether you or I think they are worth it. Good mk1's are now £1500+ I've seen mk2 being advertised for more money than they used to and they have seem to be sold. Who knows what for though! I'm sure there was a nice Mk2 Saloon with a GT engine on here for £1000+ or something like that. So I don't see why a good mk2 AFH breadvan wouldn't be worth as much.

Why isn't it going to be near GT value? Personally I would pay more for an good condition AFH Mk2 than a good condition Mk3 GT because I prefer the looks of the mk2 over the Mk3. I would also pay more for a AFH mk2 over a AFH Mk3 as long as both cars are in simlar conditions.

But as I said in my post some people won't understand how a mk2 will be advertised for more than a Mk3.. you are one of those people. I would agree that a AFH Mk2 Polo Coupe would get more money than a Mk2 AFH Breadvan\saloon as there is more market for the coupe but that doesn't mean the breadvan would be far behind in value.

Mk3 GT Breadvans are quite rare in themselves. Now I know just because they are rare does not make them desirable or wanted however you only need 1 person to want a GT breadvan because they are not the norm or because you don't seem that many of them and doesn't mind paying slightly extra for one for those reasons.

As for service history.. I don't mean stamps in a book I mean receipts for parts, service's, service parts, bulbs, tyres. Yes just because it hasn't got paper work doesn't mean it hasn't been looked after but its one less proof that it has and when buying/selling cars what the seller says can be BS with out some proof. The 'serviced every 6/12 months' line well if you careful enough to service on the dot and not skimp spending money on the car why would you not keep all the receipts? But it does go hand in hand with a drive/visual inspection of the car. No-one would believe all the receipts if the car drives and looks crap.

Ahh yes there are loads of Rouge traders who are making a killing selling mk2 polos with receipts and service history's purchased from the internet.

Going back to the original question have you got any more details of the car? Picture, Setup etc.. as Mr McLovin says price does depend on this.

when i look at a car i always check for previous mot's to check mileage, i had a sprinter van where the mileage was out on the 3 previous mot's meaning it was bent. i overlooked it at the time as the guy seemed pretty genuine.

i check for every receipt of any oils purchased any tyres any anything and check the dates on it all, if i look at a car and its got 500 quid worth of recipts over the last couple of months then i know I'm going to save 500 quid as its already been done. the paperwork tells another story to the viewing and testdrive, how can you tell what grade oil its got in there just by viewing it, could be old diesel oil for all you know.

when i look at a car i always check for previous mot's to check mileage, i had a sprinter van where the mileage was out on the 3 previous mot's meaning it was bent. i overlooked it at the time as the guy seemed pretty genuine.

i check for every receipt of any oils purchased any tyres any anything and check the dates on it all, if i look at a car and its got 500 quid worth of recipts over the last couple of months then i know I'm going to save 500 quid as its already been done. the paperwork tells another story to the viewing and testdrive, how can you tell what grade oil its got in there just by viewing it, could be old diesel oil for all you know.

and it could be old diesel oil in it even if there are receipts saying the opposite, this is exactly what i'm on about, people putting way too much faith in pieces of paper

well yea obviously but paperwork is still very important, if the price is right i dont mind a lack of it but if I'm buying something that has obviously been messed with ie engine conversion then i want to know whoever owned/done it had some idea about what they were doing or at the very least dont use aldi own brand oils

but a piece of paper isn't a guarantee that it has had what it says done to it, and you've just admitted you agree with me on that. just because there is a piece of paper saying that some one has bought some castrol magnatec doesn't mean that the car has it in it does it?

when i look at a car i always check for previous mot's to check mileage, i had a sprinter van where the mileage was out on the 3 previous mot's meaning it was bent. i overlooked it at the time as the guy seemed pretty genuine.

i check for every receipt of any oils purchased any tyres any anything and check the dates on it all, if i look at a car and its got 500 quid worth of recipts over the last couple of months then i know I'm going to save 500 quid as its already been done. the paperwork tells another story to the viewing and testdrive, how can you tell what grade oil its got in there just by viewing it, could be old diesel oil for all you know.

and it could be old diesel oil in it even if there are receipts saying the opposite, this is exactly what i'm on about, people putting way too much faith in pieces of paper

but a piece of paper isn't a guarantee that it has had what it says done to it, and you've just admitted you agree with me on that. just because there is a piece of paper saying that some one has bought some castrol magnatec doesn't mean that the car has it in it does it?

Yes but the more paper work you have the less likely to be so. As in my experience people who are out to cheat can't be bothered to make up receipts for things or don't want the paper trail to catch them out. The paper work is just one bit and on its own doesn't guarantee that its true. But it and the test drive, visual inspection and chatting to the owner makes the complete item. Plus if you are buying from a dealer (not that this mk2 would be from one) they have no idea about the service history of the car this is when paperwork is needed. Yes even with all this it still might be 'right' oil but its pretty much as sure as you can be without taking a sample of oil for testing!

Anyway this way way off topic...

lol forget the oil part that was just an example, my point is that if someone loves their car they will spend a bit of doh on it, anyone who is remotely into cars will spend money on it, its just a disease we have. i keep receipts for pretty much everything i buy unless its little things that i dont need to keep. my current car has pretty much nil history with it but ill make sure when its passed on it will be full of receipts of the work I've done to it. its just all about piece of mind having some paperwork to sift through can ease your mind.

heres a good example, my car was of my neighbour who i know is into his cars, he spent a few quid on it before he sold it to a mate. she drove it for a while and had a fair bit of work including replacing pretty much the whole brake system, he then brought it back and i brought it of him. both the 2 previous owners spent money yet i still find a brand new cambelt in the boot. they might of just brought the wrong one and didnt send it back and the cambelt has been done, or it could be they was going to do it and never got around to it. a receipt from a garage saying cambelt change would confirm this in an instant rather than me guessing.

But thats the thing they are massively over priced to you.. as you know how much they used to cost. But as time goes on things change.. prices change. The older a car get the more the potential there is for them to increase in value. If cars start to sell at those values then that is the value of the car whether you or I think they are worth it. Good mk1's are now £1500+ I've seen mk2 being advertised for more money than they used to and they have seem to be sold. Who knows what for though! I'm sure there was a nice Mk2 Saloon with a GT engine on here for £1000+ or something like that. So I don't see why a good mk2 AFH breadvan wouldn't be worth as much.

Why isn't it going to be near GT value? Personally I would pay more for an good condition AFH Mk2 than a good condition Mk3 GT because I prefer the looks of the mk2 over the Mk3. I would also pay more for a AFH mk2 over a AFH Mk3 as long as both cars are in simlar conditions.

But as I said in my post some people won't understand how a mk2 will be advertised for more than a Mk3.. you are one of those people. I would agree that a AFH Mk2 Polo Coupe would get more money than a Mk2 AFH Breadvan\saloon as there is more market for the coupe but that doesn't mean the breadvan would be far behind in value.

Mk3 GT Breadvans are quite rare in themselves. Now I know just because they are rare does not make them desirable or wanted however you only need 1 person to want a GT breadvan because they are not the norm or because you don't seem that many of them and doesn't mind paying slightly extra for one for those reasons.

As for service history.. I don't mean stamps in a book I mean receipts for parts, service's, service parts, bulbs, tyres. Yes just because it hasn't got paper work doesn't mean it hasn't been looked after but its one less proof that it has and when buying/selling cars what the seller says can be BS with out some proof. The 'serviced every 6/12 months' line well if you careful enough to service on the dot and not skimp spending money on the car why would you not keep all the receipts? But it does go hand in hand with a drive/visual inspection of the car. No-one would believe all the receipts if the car drives and looks crap.

Ahh yes there are loads of Rouge traders who are making a killing selling mk2 polos with receipts and service history's purchased from the internet.

Going back to the original question have you got any more details of the car? Picture, Setup etc.. as Mr McLovin says price does depend on this.

no they are massively over priced to me because i know how much they are worth. take for example the 'rare' silver mk2 coupe boulevard (or what ever it was) that was for sale on here recently for 1200 notes, my mates little brother was interested in it but i told him it was only worth half that and to wait until it drops to it's true value... low an behold a month or so later after it not selling and keep dropping in price it's at half of the original asking price when it finally sells.

also mk2 breadvans are the most readily available and least sort after version of the mk2 range, and you've done it again by comparing a breadvan to a loon, loons are much more sort after and are a lot rarer than the breadvan, this is why they sell for more. good breadvans can be picked up for around 400 quid (this is not what they used to sell for, this is what they sell for now), so how does sticking a 2-300 pound engine conversion in one make it worth 1k?? infact if you have 1k to chuck at an AFH mk2 bready let me know because i could make a nice profit off building you one

a mk2 loon with a AFH in would sell for more than a mk2 square back with the same engine, why? because the standard loon would sell for a lot more than the standard mk2 square back because they are a lot rarer and more sort after (the scene kids seem to love them lol). it's really not rocket science tbh.

i agree, mk3 GT square backs are not very sort after, but if someone pays over the odd's for one that doesn't then mean that every other mk3 gt square back like it is worth that much, it just means that some ones going to lose out more than they had to when they come to sell it

and at which point did i say that rouge traders were making a killing off people buying mk2 polo's?

lol forget the oil part that was just an example, my point is that if someone loves their car they will spend a bit of doh on it, anyone who is remotely into cars will spend money on it, its just a disease we have. i keep receipts for pretty much everything i buy unless its little things that i dont need to keep. my current car has pretty much nil history with it but ill make sure when its passed on it will be full of receipts of the work I've done to it. its just all about piece of mind having some paperwork to sift through can ease your mind.

heres a good example, my car was of my neighbour who i know is into his cars, he spent a few quid on it before he sold it to a mate. she drove it for a while and had a fair bit of work including replacing pretty much the whole brake system, he then brought it back and i brought it of him. both the 2 previous owners spent money yet i still find a brand new cambelt in the boot. they might of just brought the wrong one and didnt send it back and the cambelt has been done, or it could be they was going to do it and never got around to it. a receipt from a garage saying cambelt change would confirm this in an instant rather than me guessing.

and on the flip side i could sell you a car with a folder full of receipts for engine work (cams, head work, overbore ect), how would you even know if this work had been done? i could of just knocked them up myself using the name of a garage/car tuner. now your not going to know if this work has even been carried out without stripping the engine down but it has paper work to back up my claims so why would you doubt me?.. little do you know but i'm a dodgy bastard that makes a nice living off this sort of stuff and i have a golden tongue and could sell sand to arabs.

(i'm not really but you get the idea lol)

and max people do add service history to cars (the stamps are readily available from ebay along with every thing else you need for penny's btw), and they do add receipts to paper work, they do it for this exact reason's highlighted in this thread, it and it lul's them in to a false sense of security about the car, and there is no paper trail from a load of receipts, they don't have your name or address on just what was bought and when (besides the log book already has any thing they need to know on it ). people will pay more for a car with all this than a car without, so that car they have just picked up from some women down the road for a few hundred is now worth double to some mug on the internetz because they think it's been cherished and looked after. i know this because i know people that have done it

this is why i know not to pay much attention to paper work, all i check is that the mot is in date (although i know from personal experience how easy it is to get a fake one ) and check that the tax is in date and for the car. every thing else i need to know about the car i can tell by driving it and looking around it, every thing else is easily faked so not really worth paying much attention to imo, it could just as easily be fake as it can be real so why put any faith in it?

i reckon its worth about 5 dutch hookers.

its not just the paperwork tho is it, its the whole package. if i go to see a car and the guy knows what hes talking about the car is in good nick and drives sweet and there is a folder full of paperwork then it just tells me that its been looked after, ok some people will do fakes etc but i seriously doubt anyone will goto that much trouble over a car, fake mot yes fake receipts? its easier to just not have the paperwork and drop the price than it is to fake loads of crap.

as for having engine work done. i wouldnt buy a car like that unless it was either dirt cheap or i had been watching it for a while and jumped on the chance to own it when it came up for sale. a mate recently brought an evo4 wich has had a shitload of work done and it was at a very reasonable price, i was very weary of it when he told me but once we spoke to the chap and had a look through the paperwork and looked around the car everything tallied up, sure it could of had a nicked engine etc but for the time we had and the knowledge we had of that car at the time we walked away with a sweet deal, obviously time will tell on that one.

ok some people will do fakes etc but i seriously doubt anyone will goto that much trouble over a car, fake mot yes fake receipts? its easier to just not have the paperwork and drop the price than it is to fake loads of crap.

you do realize this is money we are talking about? of cause people will go out of their way to get it. why would they drop the price if this is their main screw of making extra money off the car?

no they are massively over priced to me because i know how much they are worth. take for example the 'rare' silver mk2 coupe boulevard (or what ever it was) that was for sale on here recently for 1200 notes, my mates little brother was interested in it but i told him it was only worth half that and to wait until it drops to it's true value... low an behold a month or so later after it not selling and keep dropping in price it's at half of the original asking price when it finally sells.

also mk2 breadvans are the most readily available and least sort after version of the mk2 range, and you've done it again by comparing a breadvan to a loon, loons are much more sort after and are a lot rarer than the breadvan, this is why they sell for more. good breadvans can be picked up for around 400 quid (this is not what they used to sell for, this is what they sell for now), so how does sticking a 2-300 pound engine conversion in one make it worth 1k?? infact if you have 1k to chuck at an AFH mk2 bready let me know because i could make a nice profit off building you one

a mk2 loon with a AFH in would sell for more than a mk2 square back with the same engine, why? because the standard loon would sell for a lot more than the standard mk2 square back because they are a lot rarer and more sort after (the scene kids seem to love them lol). it's really not rocket science tbh.

i agree, mk3 GT square backs are not very sort after, but if someone pays over the odd's for one that doesn't then mean that every other mk3 gt square back like it is worth that much, it just means that some ones going to lose out more than they had to when they come to sell it

and at which point did i say that rouge traders were making a killing off people buying mk2 polo's?

So that coupe sold for 600? I know a really good condition breadvan that sold for £600. nice original condition no rust very clean interior, sport seats, rev counter, roof bars. Just because you won't pay for it doesn't mean others won't.

so quoting myself

If the engine conversion has been done well, it has some good choice mods and it looks 'professional' then I would say £1000+ish

add a engine £250

plus some choice mods (mix of new/second hand - suspension, SS manifold & exhaust, VWII brakes) £400

then and if you are running on carbs you have the cost of manifold/carbs/pump and set up £150

so that totals £800 so add the 2 together then that makes £1400. So a asking price of £1000ish I would say is reasonable.

Take into consideration your breadvan price drop which (I don't totally agree with) then thats still an asking price for £800ish but this does all depend on the condition of the car. If the car is rubbish condition then the price falls, if there and no/badly done mods then the price falls, if the conversion is done badly then the price falls. But if its a really good condition they can command a certain price hike. Mk2 are becoming rarer because that's what happens when cars get old and when cars get old finding a good condition one becomes harder. I have a feeling what you think is good condition is not what I think it is.

I think you are getting a bit hung up on the whole shape of the car thing. I know there are people who really dislike the van/saloon/coupe but with these ages of cars I think condition is what sells. Well thats my take on it.

and at which point did i say that rouge traders were making a killing off people buying mk2 polo's?

Thirdly paper work is meaningless, just because you have every mot doesn't mean it hasn't been thrashed, and just because it hasn't got any paper work doesn't mean it hasn't been looked after. People that rely too much on paper work are mugs tbh, these are the sort of people that rouge traders make a killing from. You can make yourself a 'genuine' full service history for your car only using stuff bought from ebay ffs

Well you suggested that the paper work is meaning less and and anyone wanting to have paper work that documents the history are the people that rouge trader make a killing from. So this person selling this mk2 polo must have though right... to get another 25/50 quid for this car I must spend my time making 20+ years of history for it. Documents on its own does not add £400 to the car but if the car is in really good condition and you are asking top money for it I would say history is needed.

and on the flip side i could sell you a car with a folder full of receipts for engine work (cams, head work, overbore ect), how would you even know if this work had been done? i could of just knocked them up myself using the name of a garage/car tuner. now your not going to know if this work has even been carried out without stripping the engine down but it has paper work to back up my claims so why would you doubt me?.. little do you know but i'm a dodgy bastard that makes a nice living off this sort of stuff and i have a golden tongue and could sell sand to arabs.

This is where the visual inspection and test drive come in. Paperwork is part of making the complete history of the car. If 2 car came on the market and both look the same.. the owners said the same, the test drive/visual inspection was the same but only the service was only present on 1 car then I would pick the car with service history.

... as this thread proves a car is only worth what you are willing to pay for it. And in that case you are the only person who can answer this!