I own a set of 40-50 year old wheels that are unknown made by a company called LEGA, i have no knowledge of this company. Anyway to fit them on my breadvan i need 20mm spacers but the spacers have a center bore of 57.1 obviously, but the wheels have a bore of 76mm, just wondering if just having them bolted on by the 4 bolts will be enough to drive with them comfortably or will i need to make some kind of sleeve or something?

Cheers Jordan

I dont know about the centre bore part of the question. Do know that 'lega' is italian for 'alloy' (as in alloy wheels) though :)

I dont know about the centre bore part of the question. Do know that 'lega' is italian for 'alloy' (as in alloy wheels) though :)

Cool i did not know that haah learn something new everyday , cheers! these wheels are still a mystery to me hah

Edited 4 January, 201115 yr by BreadVan-Man

Spigot rings would normally be the answer

http://motors-parts.shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html...6.c0.m270.l1313

however I can't seem to find any that'll do 76 - 57.1, closest seems to be 75

Don't just rely on the bolts - they only hold the wheel on. The weight of the car is transferred to the wheel through the centre spigot, so you will need spigot rings/adaptors with the correct bore.

Don't just rely on the bolts - they only hold the wheel on. The weight of the car is transferred to the wheel through the centre spigot, so you will need spigot rings/adaptors with the correct bore.

Totally wrong.

Cheers lads these sound like the right way to go, i did think it would be too sketchy with a spacer and only 4 bolts, hmmmm 75 might do it i'll measure it again with something more accurate since i only used a ruler last time :L

Cheers Jordan

As long as the bolt holes are tapered so that the wheel is centred, you'll be fine. It'll just be a bitch to put the wheel on with such a big difference in centre bore size AND spacers. Make sure you tighten opposite bolts incrementally so it settles centrally.

The weight is transferred through the friction between the hub face and rear of the wheel. Even the original wheels don't fit nearly tightly enough over the hub centre lip for any weight to be transferred through that.

Don't just rely on the bolts - they only hold the wheel on. The weight of the car is transferred to the wheel through the centre spigot, so you will need spigot rings/adaptors with the correct bore.

Totally wrong.

ano yeh sorry to burst your bubble Puncharado but no weight transfer goes through the spigot rings what so ever, they only help you align the bolts like what someone else said alsong as your bolts are tapered along with the bolt holes you will be fine I've had my wellers like this for ages had the wheels on and off all the time and will be going on oulton next month with the wheels like this too

Max, I don't mind someone telling me I'm wrong, but not without any reasoning or argument.

I thought I'd read this in a reference book, but after a quick scan of mine I can't find it. And after thinking about it I guess some older cars are only aligned by conical and/or taper nuts, but then the whole wheel mounting system was designed this way, whereas newer cars have been designed for spigot mounting. In Vehicle and Engine Technology by Heinz Heisler it does state that spigot mounting and conical bolts not only locates but partially supports the wheel. It also says that some of the wheel mounting arrangements on commercial vehicles is such that the centre spigot takes no load.

Anyway, even though other people have done/are doing it without issue personally I wouldn't. To my mind a good hit on a pothole could knock the wheel of centre causing uneven load on the bolts and maybe lead to one or more snapping and an accident.

no offence puncharado but i dont need to explain anything to you. You put forward some information and i am letting you know that it is incorrect, ray2k has given the correct information regarding centre bores.

M

no offence puncharado but i dont need to explain anything to you. You put forward some information and i am letting you know that it is incorrect, ray2k has given the correct information regarding centre bores.

M

No, you don't need to explain anything to me, but maybe it would have been beneficial to the OP? The point I was trying to make is that simply saying I was wrong without offering an explaination as to why doesn't really help me or the OP, that's all.

no offence puncharado but i dont need to explain anything to you. You put forward some information and i am letting you know that it is incorrect, ray2k has given the correct information regarding centre bores.

M

No, you don't need to explain anything to me, but maybe it would have been beneficial to the OP? The point I was trying to make is that simply saying I was wrong without offering an explaination as to why doesn't really help me or the OP, that's all.

Completely agree to be honest..

Can I have a go please?

We mention 'some commercial vehicles', but in fact on the majority of modern commercials, the road wheels ARE spigot mounted, to the extent that the wheel nuts have a flat base, so play no part at all in centering the wheel.

Now, back to your car and it would seem, Italian wheels. The thing that you really do need to check for is that both the wheels and the wheel bolts have EITHER conical OR spherical seatings. You MUST NOT mix the two together, as it is these that both centre the wheel AND act as a locking device. They would not carry out either of these tasks reliably if they were mixed.

Regards.

having personally seen a 6n 3 wheeling on the side of the a1 with one very expensive looking bbs rm wedged into the central reservation i would without question or doubt say wheels are designed to be spigot mounted, yes they can survive with just bolts but the centre hub takes almost all of the lateral stress away from the bolts which simply are not designed to take it especially on a bloody 4 stud car. they can shear which usually results, in this poor owners case, in you f-ing it and narrowly avoiding a following truck.

how exactly does a spigot remove lateral stress from the wheel bolts? if a wheel is bolted onto a hub to the correct torque, it isnt going anywhere, spigot or not. The reason it wont go anywhere is due to the friction that is created between the mating face of the hub and the mating face of the wheel when a wheel is correctly bolted up. the two mating faces will be under sheer stress and compression stress, whereas the bolts will experience tensional stress.

simple experiment for you.......

get 2 bits of card, put them between your hands but applying no force and you can move them laterally, independant of each other.

now hold them tightly together and see if you can get them to move laterally. (you can't)

A spigots main purpose is to help centre the wheel on the hub. once a wheel is bolted up correctly you will find the wheel centre will have little or no contact with the spigot anyway, unless you have spigot rings which tend to be a tight fit to both the wheel and spigot.

This brings me onto the next point...... Most spigot rings are made of plastic or at best soft aluminium. If the spigot was load bearing, do you think they would be a suitable material?!

In breadvan-mans position I would be inclined to get some custom spigots made, as running 20mm spacers with the wheels just bolted on is likely to cause wheel wobble especially as the 40-50 year old wheels will most likely be 4x4" pcd (4x100 wheels weren't very common place 40-50 years ago) so would require wobble bolts, leaving the spigot as the only way to centre the wheels.

you could of course use spacer adaptors to convert to the correct pcd, but again, it would still be sensible to use spigot rings to aid getting the wheels central. there are pleanty of people on ebay who will make custom spigot rings to order for around £15

I have the same problem with breadvan-man and i was told that the hub bore actually centres the wheel so you dont get crazy wheel wobble at 70mph like i do and also shares some of the load from the wheel nuts aswell.

I've even had a few mechanics, even engineers look at my wheels and all of them have either said ' i wouldnt drive your car or i hope there show wheels'

I'm having a local machine shop make me some custom aluminium spigot rings and spacers.

heres a good faq on wheel fitment written by a very competent engineer who frequents the retro rides forum

http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?...mp;thread=39706

I thought that I had said it above, but obviously I haven't made it clear enough.

Road wheels are centered EITHER by a spigot mounting, in which case they don't require spherical or tapered nuts/bolts, OR they are centered by those spherical or tapered seats.

If you were to centre a wheel on a spigot and then try to tighten it up with spherical or tapered bolts/nuts, they would, in all probability, not make full contact with the seatings, this is due to the fact that, when spigoted wheels are used, there is in fact a clearance between the stud or bolt and the hole in the wheel.

I have never tried this, but would imagine that once your nut/bolt centered wheel is tightened, it would be quite possible to run a feeler blade around the gap between the wheel centre and the wheel bore.

The only task that the Polo type wheel centre does, is to hold the wheel in position until the bolts are in place. With wheels which are held on by nuts, the studs hold the wheel in position until the nuts are on.

Regards.

spigot rings are mainly plastic. gives the answer away really doesnt it. if there designed to carry load they wouldnt be friggin plastic.

no offence puncharado but i dont need to explain anything to you. You put forward some information and i am letting you know that it is incorrect, ray2k has given the correct information regarding centre bores.

M

No, you don't need to explain anything to me, but maybe it would have been beneficial to the OP? The point I was trying to make is that simply saying I was wrong without offering an explaination as to why doesn't really help me or the OP, that's all.

Completely agree to be honest..

Oh right, better give an explanation then if you agree!

spigot rings are mainly plastic. gives the answer away really doesnt it. if there designed to carry load they wouldnt be friggin plastic.

Exactly dude, The main thing to worry about with using non hub-centric spacers and incorrect fitment wheels is getting them centred properly, If they aren't then they will no doubt shake them selves loose.

As "caretakeplus" states, vehicles usually use the centre spigot or conical/spherical seated bolts to centre the wheel properly.

However if you then use variance headed bolts (wobble bolts) because the mounting PCD is incorrect , then you have no way of making sure the wheel sits central,

This is when you need spigot rings.

definately agree with the above.