Hey,

I have a 1.4 8v. At home I already have a 4-2-1 manifold and a cam for an 8v, therefore saying do a 16v conversion isnt an option - id like to fit a 1.6 8v.

Just wondering a few things,

What is different?

Id imagine all the wiring/pipe connections are the same, even the alternator and pas pump. Is the starter motor different? (for example different pinion?)

I was going to source an engine, but I might buy a car and break it as everything would be there.

Id be rebuilding the engine in the sense of:

Hone & new rings,

Light head skim, triple cut valve seats, slight porting and polishing of head

Rebuilt with new gaskets/belts/tensioners/thermostat etc.

Will be running around a 264 cam in it.

Not sure whether to bike carb (mpg and adaptability stop me) or would it be ok on the throttle body with a remap (can aee's be mapped?)

Would I be better to run the 1.4 or 1.6 gearbox?

The full setup would be:

- 1.6 8v 75bhp (AEE - this is the mpi one right?)

- Slightly ported and polished head + skimmed and triple cut valve seats

- 264 Cam

- 4-2-1 SS mani

- 200 cell sports cat

- twin silenced cat back SS exhaust

- BMC cda with chip/map (map ideally due to cam)

- OR bike carbs, running vac advanced dizzy etc.

Dont know whether the cost of things like lightening and balancing the crank and flywheel would justify the gains id get from them?

Just any tips/predicted powers/better ideas & info on what parts are the same etc would be appreciated,

Thanks

also, would be clocks work ok & read the correct speed? :)

Bump

Have also read that fitting GT injection is better? I was going to go for a poloace chip?

Also would it be worth putting a cam in? Or would I be better with the standard cam and getting the flywheel lightened instead?

Need to speak to my insurer as it seems it maybe outputting more than my 100hp limit too, any help/advice appreciated asap so I can get on the lookout for a car to rob an engine from! :)

I have done this conversion on a 1.0 lupo, Everything is a plug and play, try to get a aee multipoint engine as it is a easier conversion, the aea can be done i did it this way, Because i got a 28000 car cheap, but if you go this route you have to change the breather in the block to a ealry polo type and modifiy the 1.4 inlet to accept the 1.6 injectors, It can be done but it is easier to do thew aee conversion, Plug and play all you will need is the ecu and engine complete you will need to get the car plugged in as the immobiliser will stop it starting, But if you plug the ecu in try to start it it should cut out go into the immobiliser on vag com and reset the fault and it should run. And a gt cam gives you a bit more bhp and the engine looks the same as 1.0 and 1.4 so insurance should be ok ! If i can help with info on the conversion let me know.

Ok thanks mate, I want an AEE anyway tbh!

Engine will be having a full rebuild with headwork, possible oversized pistons and around a 280 cam.

I will be buying a donor car, but as I have the later clocks etc will I need to get one from a later polo?!

I hope ill be able just to resync my current keys with the ECU via vagcom.

So I can literally just connect up throttle cable, brake vac, exhaust, fuel, engine harness plugs, coolant hoses etc.

Then just connect ECU off the 1.6 into the vehicle loom and should run and revs/speed read ok?

I think I'm kind of currently decided on:

1.6 AEE,

Rebore to slightly larger pistons, or just hone & rings

Slight head work (light skim, mainly for headgasket sealing as apposed to lowering CR, triple cut valve seats, some porting (flowing and smoothing etc) )

Fast road/track cam (around a 280)

4-2-1 SS Manifold

200 Cell sports cat

SS Cat back exhaust

BMC CDA

Poloace chip

Waterpump

New thermostat + housing

New tappets

New shells, seals, gaskets, conrod bushes etc

Denso iridium plugs + 8mm magnecor leads (only because they're blue lol!)

New rotor arm, dizzy cap etc, all that jazz

New clutch

Just wondering, is it worth the boring and oversized pistons (anyone know how much?)

Should I have the flywheel lightened and balanced?

1.4 or 1.6 gearbox?

With regards to inlet/throttle body,

I dont like the plastic manifold, could I make like an aluminium one, but mount the standard throttle body on it, or maybe a larger one (any ideas what would work on standard ecu?)

I know a few people mess with these engines, and I'v read they can be quite good engines when tuned a bit.

I'm not really feeling bike carbs due to the adaptation and mpg/emissions etc, and throttle bodies would simply cost too much to get.

I'm not after crazy power, just an improvement on my 1.4 8v lol. I can get my insurance limit at 120bhp no issues, but would it be more running the above kind of mods?

Anyone such as mikeymk etc, your advice/knowledge would be greatly appreciated! :)

Oversized pistons will be very expensive, so if the bores arent too oval, a hone and rings would suffice. Also, your conrod bushes should be fine. I've just rebuilt my aea (1.6 spi) without the porting etc and triple cut valves, and it's cost me the best part of £500 with the hone and lapped valves. It's not cheap. With such a lairy cam, your going to find it's very lumpy on idle, especially with the lightened fly. The GT cam is a straight swap iirc, so that could be an option.

Yeah turns out oversized pistons can cause issues too. The valve work shouldn't really be a problem.

What did you change and what were costs of parts?

Big and main bearings, at about £40 a set. Except when I bought my main bearings, 4 shells were different to the others. Despite being for the engine I have, to be safe, I ordered another set, with the same 4 different shells to make a complete set all with the correct oil channels. Valves cost about £90, conversion set and, top end seals, head gasket and new head bolts were around £130 all in. New cam belt tensioner and water pump were around £50ish. Honing and new valves lapped in was £120 but that was mates rates cash in hand job. New rings were £70 new rocker bolts were over £12. New valve guides a about £12 too. Then you obviously have all your service parts on top of that. If I'm honest, I wouldn't do it again, and certainly not to improve performance. I did it as an educational exercise.

Big and main bearings, at about £40 a set. Except when I bought my main bearings, 4 shells were different to the others. Despite being for the engine I have, to be safe, I ordered another set, with the same 4 different shells to make a complete set all with the correct oil channels. Valves cost about £90, conversion set and, top end seals, head gasket and new head bolts were around £130 all in. New cam belt tensioner and water pump were around £50ish. Honing and new valves lapped in was £120 but that was mates rates cash in hand job. New rings were £70 new rocker bolts were over £12. New valve guides a about £12 too. Then you obviously have all your service parts on top of that. If I'm honest, I wouldn't do it again, and certainly not to improve performance. I did it as an educational exercise.

Yeah I kind of want to do it for education too mate, and to know I'm fitting a fresh engine type thing, I know IRS costly for what it is.

What's a conversion set? & I can hone & lap myself, also have a contact who will skim and machine the valve seats for around £150. I will port the head myself (mainly just flow them to suit manifolds & smooth off the casting a bit)

Where did you manage to source parts? I have no idea where to look or order them haha!

What sort of limit is there on the bores being oval? I mean when is the limit of just honing & rings?

Any advice on inlet manifolds/throttle bodies/gearbox?

Nick

Conversion set is just a posh name for bottom end gasket set. I got most of my parts from Gsf or my local motor factor.

Regarding how oval, i'm not really too sure. There should be tolerances in the haynes. You could fit oversized rings (if you can get them) if the bores are just worn.

As for gearboxes, I've gone for the standard 1.6. Since I'm running bike carbs and expecting around 120bhp with 100ftlbs torque due the the various mods, the 1.6 'box should be the best bet for me. I want nice cruising revs and relatively good economy, which this should deliver

ah I see! I didn't realise GSF would supply engine components tbh.

I know the gt cam is better, but I'm thinking of getting a Newman 272 for a gt engine and just fitting it with a vernier pulley? (around 4.5 teeth different right?) do these fit the 1.6 ok? I'm sure I read the 1.6 has a higher lift cam to the 1.4's etc?

I really don't know what to do, I'd rather run on the injection, but then I would want a new manifold as I don't like the plastic ones, carbs sound good & get gains but it's another addition of cost and that. Realistically, for carbs, manifold, setting up & making my own manifold would probably cost like £400, especially after sourcing vac advanced dizzy etc.

When I could just spend £100 on a chip lol?

I don't know if the standard throttle body is too small? Would I get gains from a larger one? What would work?

Would it benefit to update the fuel pressure regulator etc?

I just don't know! :)

You don't need to run carbs, but ideally you'd want mpi (which the aee has iirc). You could use a 1.8 Passat throttle body, but I believe they are quite rare (you don't want the turbo one). With a suitable chip to match of course. The cam is fine, and should fit, but even at 272 it'll be quite lumpy still.

My carbs, fuel pump and manifold (home brew, check build thread for pics) cost about £100. I picked up a dizzy for £10 at the scrappy too. Not going to run the advance for now however. It's the setting up costs that will be the real cost

The 1.6 cam is different to the 1.4s etc, but the head castings are so similar, you can mix and match any of the hydro head cams into any other small block engine so long as it's not a solid lifter head

Yeah thats why I'm going AEE for the mpi :) what kind of era passat? would one off a 1.8 8v gold gti not work? mm maybe hard to sort a chip to match, maybe ill just run on the plastic intake and standard TB and see how it goes first :)

yeahhh, as long as it actually ticks over it be ok, dont mind it ticking over at 1500 anyway haha.

gonna speak to a few engine builders about oversized pistons but i doubt ill wanna spend the price they quote me haha!

thanks for all your help mate

1.8 gti golf? I'm not too sure tbh. You may get away with not needing a remap for just a tb nod. However, you definitely will if you get a new cam

Even if you run a different tb, you'll need to use the plastic manifold unless you can find another suitable one with the same bolt spacings etc. I'm not the most knowledgeable regarding that side of things I'm afraid.

Again, if you only need a few thou bored out, you may get away with oversized rings

Well I'll be chipping, need to speak to poloace about one! Well I'd be making an ally manifold with a single mounting plate for a throttle body (:

Again, if you only need a few thou bored out, you may get away with oversized rings

On a performance orientated build?

Unless the engine is using oil and the pistons are rattling about in the block, I would leave it well alone.

It'll be more expense for not any real benefit.

The only reason I would take the pistons out the block is to deck it to bring up the compression.

The AEE is a long stroke engine with a very small inlet valve for the displacement (36mm, where as Ford 1.6 CVH is 42mm and the Ford 1.6 XFlow is 39.5mm).

So the biggest barrier to getting the engine to produce power will be airflow through the small valve.

Putting a bigger cam in the engine won't really help, I think some else on here has had that experience (Leeds finest was it?).

I think MikeyMK has had experience of this engine, and maintains that the best mods are low end and torque based.

If I were going to try and improve the performance of this engine, I would work on low lift flow and try to get the air flowing into the engine sooner and moving quicker.

Things like a 30* valve seat will deliver a larger valve curtain area at low lift than a 45* seat, and a cam with a more aggressive flank to get the valve opening quicker will also help things along.

If these heads are like the AAV, AAU, 3F etc heads than the spark plug is not placed well (it is actually half hidden), and the flat head does not provide a great combustion chamber.

I have a theory that sinking the valves into the head, and moving the spark plug will help these engines make power.

Then skim the pistons to reduce weight and decrease the crevice volume. Finish up by decking the block to bring the compression back up.

But I don't actually have any experience of these engines, just chewing the fat.

the rebuild is mainly just for peace of mind of a nice fresh engine that's going to be reliable daily and to gain myself some experience of building an engine and a nice little project to do.

However I do value your input and will take on board things you have said, I may be sinking the valves into the head more and changing seat angles etc, a guy at work is building a v8 at the minute and has just had some head work done by a friend so hopefully i could get it done fairly cheaply.

Hopefully mikey will see this and shed some light :)

see i could make an inlet manifold like this....

:)

or probably mount the TB on top

Yeah good idea on the inlet mani. I wanted to build something like that for mine but in the end stuck with the GT item. Might wanna think about standalone management too, I highly doubt a chip will fulfill your needs!

yeah thats the problem, stand alone would cost loads more than carbs anyway, maybe ill just stick with standard inlet and TB and see how it goes with a chip, just seems silly modding things past the inlet but thats where it all begins lol :S

Yo,

Bike carbs...or throttle bodies off a 600cc motorbike, running the injectors in the head still, using a megasquirt ECU?

:)

Bike carbs are likely to be cheaper, unless you can map an ECU yourself and have access to a rolling road. TBs arent too cheap either

you map megasquirt yourself, can get it about 90% done by myself on road then get fully refined on rollers, can also get throttle bodies free, just need to make a manifold