Test fitted the Mk2 Golf GTI 16v master cylinder - with a bit of reshaping of the bulkhead with a rubber mallet it fits - tight!

Just need to cut the rod.

I'm currently running a 22.2 Mk2 Golf G60 master cylinder on my Mk2 Polo

to clear the bulkhead I welded longer bolts to the pedal box and got a spacer made up so I could used a master cylinder from a servo'ed car

There is of course now a huge brake balance issue with the rear brakes locking up way way before the fronts which should be easy to fix with a brake regulator but the main Issue I have is the increased braking force required go get the car to stop over the standard 18mm version. According to my rough and very simple calculations using just the chances is master cylinder size means that a mass of 10kg applied to pedal will now only result in a 46.75kg mass applied to the disks as opposed to the standard setup of 64.50kg.

So I'm now deciding do I fit a remote brake servo to boost the front brakes or just revert it back to the back to the drum setup. After all there is no point doing the conversion if the brakes are now actually worse even though they do look nice!

I have fitted mk4 rear calipers on mine along with a 16v master cylinder and they work spot on and so does the handbrake.. Also flew through the mot brake test..

Only issue I have though is there is still a fair bit of pedal travel on them.. So I'm thinking of either upgrading to a 23mm Cupra master cylinder or even a 25mm from an S2 (only if I find 239mm Wilwoods though)

Also here's a quick picture of my rear set up :)

I painted the part of the disc as it will normally rust and at least behind my bbs' it will look decent :)

yep but you have a brake servo as standard! :)

yep but you have a brake servo as standard! :)

Haha I know, but I still find that it has way too much pedal travel

yep but you have a brake servo as standard! :)

Haha I know, but I still find that it has way too much pedal travel

mine is spot on for travel.. its just the rear brakes lock and more pedal force is required than I like. :)

yep but you have a brake servo as standard! :)

Haha I know, but I still find that it has way too much pedal travel

mine is spot on for travel.. its just the rear brakes lock and more pedal force is required than I like. :)

What about fitting a Wilwood adjustable bias valve?

Have you got 256s up front?

What about fitting a Wilwood adjustable bias valve?

I can fit that to the rear but and it would sort out the front/rear brake balance issue but I would still be left with a brake pedal that requires much more force to apply the brakes than I would like.

So I can only think that if I want to keep this setup I need to run a remote servo.... but that's more expense! :)

Have you got 256s up front?

nope VWII 239's

What about fitting a Wilwood adjustable bias valve?

I can fit that to the rear but and it would sort out the front/rear brake balance issue but I would still be left with a brake pedal that requires much more force to apply the brakes than I would like.

So I can only think that if I want to keep this setup I need to run a remote servo.... but that's more expense! :)

Perhaps a bias valve and/or a remote servo would be the best then :)

i dont see why your having so much trouble Mark mine were fine with just the inline bias valve to the rear brakes they went through the mot amazingly well and i didnt have to put too much force on the pedal it was nice and easy and didnt have alot of travel either sure there isnt something else wrong with yours and the inline bias valve makes alot of difference as when it cuts down the pressure to the rear brakes it adds that pressure to the front so by weakening the rear it strengthens the front brakes

256s would sort your bias out a fair bit too. Currently you have a larger force than before at the back, but maintained the same at the front, so they will lock earlier.

Do you know the piston size in the front brakes off hand? Think it may be 36/38?

What are you use to driving mark? Daily car nice modern and comfy? Maybe its just something to get use too?

I hate driving new cars now, the pedal is so sensative lol.

Lol after I got used to driving the G40 with a Helix paddle clutch daily I had to take my mothers Ibiza mk4 out and I found it a nightmare with a hydraulic clutch

i dont see why your having so much trouble Mark mine were fine with just the inline bias valve to the rear brakes they went through the mot amazingly well and i didnt have to put too much force on the pedal it was nice and easy and didnt have alot of travel either sure there isnt something else wrong with yours and the inline bias valve makes alot of difference as when it cuts down the pressure to the rear brakes it adds that pressure to the front so by weakening the rear it strengthens the front brakes

yeah it was strange than no one mentioned anything.. perhaps you are right fitting an in line regulator will fix it. are you using any particular kind? are you using a 4 lines or just 3?

Do you know the piston size in the front brakes off hand? Think it may be 36/38?

48 mm on VWI and II

What are you use to driving mark? Daily car nice modern and comfy? Maybe its just something to get use too?

I hate driving new cars now, the pedal is so sensative lol.

yeah this is something I have thought about and I haven't driven it for nearly 2 years... but the standard brake setup was rubbish but this has made it worse for what I remember.. :)

I'm currently have 4 lines with 2 running to the back is there any +ve effect if I just run one to the rear the fit a regulator and then TPeice it off?

Ben above is copying what i did as he now has my rear disc setup including bias valve i ran a single line for each front and a single for the rear to bias vave with a single out of it to a t piece that split it to each rear side I'm sure there are some pics on my build thread

its just a turn screw bias valve i used not a lever type so you can adjust the braking bias easily

also just had a quick idea has anyone though of using slightly bigger bore brake lines this should in theory make braking better as the lines hold more fluid so would equal less pedal travel as it would fill the pistons in the calipers quicker

Not entirely pete. The inlet to the caliper would still be the same, therefore being a bottle neck on a larger bore pipe. Also the bore has to be of the same size as the fittings or else you couldn't get them on!

Mark: maybe not the most practical of ideas, but you could make the brake pedal longer. Whether you could make it long enough to be of any help is another question!

Edited 21 June, 201214 yr by prankstar2003

the inlet to the caliper is a bigger diameter hole than the inner diameter of the pipe tho so this could be beneficial for a little increase yeah you would have to sort the fittings but if you were going full braided like i am then you could sort the fittings at the same time

The inlet on mine is the same size, if not smaller than the bore of the line. Also consider the opening the fluid moves through as it moves behind the piston. This is of limited size, and smaller than the pipe bore also. And then any internal channels inside the caliper. Although I'm not entirely sure what size they are, I can't imagine they are as big at brake line bore

So I can only think that if I want to keep this setup I need to run a remote servo.... but that's more expense! :)

Just found these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130714686907?ssP...984.m1423.l2649

I have finally gotten my brakes working after a lot of hassle and trial and error. Below is a list and a guide for parts needed to fit Girling 36s on the rear and girling 54s on the front of an Early mk2 saloon (four outlets from the master cylinder).

Parts

22.5mm Master Cylinder from Golf Mk2 16v GTi

There are three options for the fluid reservoir.To retain the standard 22.5mm reservoir like Mark has done involves longer studs on the pedal box and making a spacer. See here for more details

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?...1303&st=700

Reshape the bulkhead like Kerrly has done. See here for more details (beat with hammer is as detailed as it gets!)

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?...70397&st=25

Or like me, go for a custom set up useing smaller reservoirs, custom inlets and brackets. See here for more details

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?...9526&st=200

and here

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?...9526&st=375

There should be no issues fitting a larger MC to a mk2f with servo

- Plenty of Kunifer for making your hardlines

- 12 M10 x 1 brass brake end fittings

- MK2f GT brake bias valve with assorted brackets and clips (clips are best to be gotten from VW) springs etc.

For the rear

- Girling 36s from Golf Mk2 16v GTi

- Rear Carriers from Golf Mk2 16v GTi

- Rear Stub axles from Golf Mk2 16v GTi

- MK2f Polo rear brake regulator

- Standard Mk2 Polo Handbrake cables

- Hand Brake Cable adaptors for calipers

- Custom HEL braided lines. 550mm in length with M10 x 1 banjo fitting at caliper end, M10 x 1 standard female fitting at hadline end (be specific about your fittings, the first lot I recieved had the wrong ones on). I used HEL over Goodridge due to the bespoke nature and complete stainless construction (Goodride use plated). When using a 6 hose Goodridge G60 kit, I had to make a short hardline as the rear hoses weren't long enough

- MK2 Golf 16v GTi rear pads and discs

- Copper washers

For the Front

- Girling 54s (available from various models from VAG range)

- Girling 54 standard carriers (not the Scirocco 16v versions, which allow you to do away with the custom adaptors shown below)

- Custom mounting brackets and struts. See here http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?...19526&st=75 and here http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?...9526&st=100 for more details and pictures

- Custom 300mm HEL braided hoses (would use shorter, maybe 200mm in future, especially on a lowered car) with M10 x 1 female ends at each end

- M10 x 1 male/male connector with tapered ends

Instructions

- You only need new hardlines if yours are corroded, your swapping the MC from a 3 port outlet to a 4 port outlet model or your adding something to the circuit (like the GT bias valve).

- Remove hardlines and bend up new ones, taking into account the postition of the bias valve

- Mount up the stub axles, carriers, calipers discs and pads onto the back axle, being sure to have the calipers towards the back of the wheel. There is a rewind tool for the rear brake pistons but a set of pliers works fine for winding them back in They will need to be mounted 'upside down' to allow you to fit the hand brake adapters. Note the position of the bleed nipple, its at the 'top'.

- Affix all flexi lines, fitting copper washers either side of the banjo fitting at the caliper end. The hardline end shouldn't need on as the hardline should form a seal (especially if using kunifer). The hadline will be at the 'bottom' of the caliper

- Fit the hand brake adapters. The passenger side cable can run in its usual place, but the drivers side must loop back over the trailing arm to get into position. This is when using an early hand brake set up. I can't speak for the later set ups and if the standard handbrake cables will be long enough

- When bleeding the brakes, be sure to have the bias valve pulled fully towards the back of the car

- Pump the brakes a few times, and adjust the hand brake under the car

Hope this helps and clears up a few of the issues people are having regarding this. However, this is just the way I have done it and I can't say whether this applies when using different parts.

Edited 20 July, 201214 yr by prankstar2003

At this rate once i have added my input as my setup is different in places we might as well just start the thread again. Great effort with your write up Mr Prankstar.

How is yours different?

Edited 20 July, 201214 yr by prankstar2003

How is yours different?

Brake lines look abit umm.... low there dude. Possibly get the ends cut off and replaced with a banjo fitting.