I really need some advice. I was stopped by the traffic cops on Thursday night after driving through an amber light at a crossroads. I saw a police car do a full u-turn in my rearview mirror after I went through the lights, and thought thats fine I went through at amber. I saw it speed up through the now definitely red light without any sirens or lights on what-so-ever. I then turned off the main road and stopped to go into the pizza shop. Now they turned the sirens on and the woman traffic officer jumped out the car. I asked is everything ok. She barked "no" at me, then had to regather her composure and say "yes could you please get in the car". Before I even had chance to speak the male officer (driver) had started filling in a ticket. I dont remember exactly what was said next but they said I had gone through a red light. I told them the light was amber and they said it wasnt. I said it again, that it was deffinitely amber. To which the female officer replied "it doesnt matter, it will have been red when you went over the line." The thing is they couldnt have accurately seen the traffic lights in respect to the position of my car as they were facing the opposite dirrection, and even using their mirrors it wouldnt have been accurate. To top it off they have put the wrong junction on the ticket they gave me. It says "Ayr Road at Burnfield Road", when infact it is "Fennick Road at Burnfield Road". The junction they put does not exist.

As far as I can see I have a few choices of what to do.

1) Pay the fine and take the points, but I don't see why I should have to when I didnt break the law. They told me I wouldnt have to declare the points to my insurance also as it is not a conviction like drink driving :S

2) Don't pay the fine and it goes to court. Then risk court fees, higher fine, and having this hanging over me.

3) Go to the police station and talk to them. I am unsure what to say or do with this one however. (if I do this and it goes to court I would reveal my case defence to the police and they could then take time to think of arguments against what I say.)

I really don't know what to do, and appreciate any advice you have. I would not appreciate people saying I should just take the points like a man, as I don't deserve them here.

Thanks if u managed to read all that!

Edited 3 November, 200619 yr by Will_S

If it was on amber, and they were going in the opposite direction, I would find it hard to beleive their judgement especially as have got other details wrong (like the junction). its unfortunate, but if you were alone and there were two of them, its your word against theirs, but the wrong junction on their paperwork should help your case. I was once stopped and told I was speeding because I was doing 35mph, to which I replied "didn't you see the 40 limit sign on the roundabout". they did let me off though.

harsh, i would contest it stating exactly what you have said about how the officers could have seen that the lights were amber/red and also for the fact that the junction is incorrect and their lack of lights/sirens when they went through a red light (how dangerous ). if it were a parking ticket incorrect information like the place of the "offence" would make it invalid as it has to state all correct info about the offence.

also personally i would have said that when i went through the traffic lights they were green, i would not have mentioned amber at all.

afterthought... so if it takes 2 officers to see an offence before they can charge you, where was the police driver looking when this offence took place??? eyes obviously not on the road? did they have camera footage in car, red light camera??

Saxo drivers

Good point about two people having to see, surely if the driver is busy looking at the other car he's not driving with 'due care and attention' a long shot but still.

Also with regards to you going through on amber, go for the old "it wasn't safe for me to stop at that moment"

Thanks alot for the advice there. I think I am going to let it go to court and say all this stuff. Hopefully it'll fall apart before then when the officer that issued me the ticket realises that he has put the wrong street, and that it wont hold water in court. Cheers.

A bloke I know on another forum's just been to court with nearly identical circumstances, made a laughing stock of the officer and been let off. I'll ask him to get in touch.

Hi there,

I'm the guy as mentioned previously who has just won a court battle against the police on similar charges.

Firstly, your ticket is invalid if they have written the wrong road name down. You weren't there, simple as. Fight it on this basis alone!

Secondly, I went through the light just as it changed amber. The Police argued and said I went through it at speed on a red, in all honesty, there is far to much to write so you may like to read my thread from FEOC-UK.com

If there is no actual evidence of you committing the crime, the ticket is incorrect and you BELIEVE you are in the rigth, I would fight it. Just make sure you get all your evidence together, and have it all planned out what you will say if and thats a big if, it ends up going to court.

But first, just try refusing the ticket as it is incorrect and see where that goes!

That any use to you?

Thats brilliant. Cheers dude for the advice. That's what I'm going to do. Thanks a lot to everyone who replied.

Will

I know somebody who went to court for this, the judge didnt want to even hear his side of the story he just saw that he was a young male driver assumed boy racer and gave him a fine and also a few points off his license.

He's had even more trouble once when he drove a coutsey car froma garage once for a month, they said they covered the insrance for him for the month. A oy ran out in front of him he hit him checked he was ok, he turned out fine and no problems, the driver my mate reported it to the police still just in case, and they said he was driving without insurance it turned outt he garge had only covered him for a week. He couldnt say it was there fault because they could just say its his responsiblity to sort out insurance, and he got taken to court by the police had another 6 point off his license and another fine to pay.

Get a solicitor, you weren't at the junction, therefore the fine is null.

How did this turn out dude?

Still heard nothing, didn't pay the fixed pentaly. If it goes to court I will be using all the technical arguments here so that there is less chance of them having a good argument. I have also been researching how long the particular traffic lights take to change, and also will be measuring various distances at the traffic lights (such as distance from stop line to clearing the junction) and doing a few simple calculations that will prove it would have been safe to go through even at red with the margins in lights changing.

Anyone know how long it will take to receive a notice from the court?

Anyone know how long it will take to receive a notice from the court?

could take anything up to 6 months to be honest m8 - when my mate got clocked speeding it took 3 months to come thru and that was just the notice to pay the fine. if he hadnt payed, it could have taken a lot longer to go to court.

i heard about a guy who would have been banned had he paid his speeding fine and collected the 3 points (already having 3 points and still being on his probation) he only had 3 months left untill he was over the 2 years, so he paid the fine 3 days late and still holds his license with 6 points on it - lol the law works :-D

Received another offer of a fine and 3 points a couple of days ago. Giving me another 28days to pay it. I am going to write back in a couple of weeks explaining most of the points listed here. When they send me another chance to pay it makes me think that the case would hold water. Also the letter is wrong, stating no juction, but simply Ayr Road. Which wasn't the correct road to start with.

I really just want this out the way.

Will

This may not be the case, but some traffic lights are staggered in opposite directions..... e.g. Crossroad traffic lights with filter/turn lane. Lights for your direction may change before or after opposing traffic. I'd go to the lights in question and check this out as from the police officer's view, it could well be that the lights they saw were red but they were only just changing for you.

The other points detailed here are all valid but you do need legal advice on this matter.

If they wrote the wrong road name down take it to court you should get off ok. Claim costs off it aswell (day off work, petrol etc etc).

Also isnt it illegal for them to go through a red light without having the blue lights flashing and siren on, as they are not warning other road users using the road legally to their presence.

Matt

Update..

I waited until 26 days out of the 28 had passed from the second change offer that they sent me, and sent a short letter back explaining that no location as stated on the ticket exists. Also asked for the procurator fiscal to write to me personally on the matter. This will hopefully indicate that I'm serious and not 'at it'. I'm still awaiting a responce. Is it 6months from the date of the alleged incident that they have to prosecute or it gets thrown out? I will get a responce if they decide to drop it wont I?

Cheers Will

got a update yet?

Still nothing since I last posted. haven't had anything else through, so I'm still unsure as to what's going on with it. I'll keep this thread updated when anything happens.

Will

UPDATE!

Received correspondance from the procurator fiscal (or rather his depute - after I specified I wanted a personal responce from the procurator fiscal.

It says:

I refer to your leter dated 15th August 2006. I can advise you that you were observed on Ayr Road near to Burnfield Road in East Renfrewshire. The police officers observed your vehicle pass clearly over the visible stop sign while the automatic traffic lights were showing red.

If you are disputing the fixed pentalty notice I advise you seek legal advise.

I trust that this information meets with your requirements.

Yours sincerely,

Ziad Hassan

Firstly he didnt even address the issue of there being no such place as ayr road at burnfield road. He simply changed from "at" to "near". They are a good 1/2 mile to a mile apart, and do not intersect ever. He clearly didn't bother to check.

I feel that is a pathetic responce to my letter. Looks like legal adivse it will have to be.

Any comments or thoughts anyone?

Yeah, go see a solictor. Most will do you a free initial hearing.

I think you are entitled to free legal aid as its a motoring offence and not criminal but give a few solicitor's a call and see what they say.

Last year the police charged me for a crime i didn't commit i don't want to say what it was but it was far more serious than a minor motoring offence, i obviously refused to plead guilty and ended up fighting the case in court.

If i had lost i would have been going to jail and as I'm 25 it would not have been juvenile detention but full adult prison to be honest i was shitting myself big time, when my court date came around my brief had prepared correctly and i gave a good honest account of myself and totally humiliated the police officers whose evidence was vital to the prosecution's case.

The district judge that saw my particular case criticised the crown prosecution and police's handling of my case and i was free to leave with a big smile on my face.

Long story short you are innocent until proven otherwise, i would never accept a punishment for a crime i didn't commit even if it meant a harsher punishment if i were to be found guilty.

If you are innocent take it to court, good luck mate.

this happened to my nana a year or so ago. Coppers thought they would try and baffle her with a load of crap as they didnt realise she was head of a soliciting company, until she proved them wrong on the spot, made them look stupid and payed no fines!! :-D

Teach them to be inconsiderate picky *^&%£ !

Good look with it all!