Anyone else see Fifth Gear last night?

They did a comparison test on standard unleaded angainst some of the "super" petrol brands and the results were a bit dissapointing considering the extra cost of the "super" fuels.

They had a 2012 Golf GTi and run the various fuels on a rolling road and compared the BHP's

BP normal unleaded 236.1 BHP £1.39/litre

BP Ultimate 236.7 BHP £1.47/litre

Shell V Power 240.9 BHP £1.45/litre

Esso Super 240.5 BHP £1.44/litre

Asda normal 235.8 BHP £1.36/litre

I've only even used V-Power in the VR, noticed the difference when had some BP Ultimate in as couldn't get to a Shell Station and it felt down on power, ergo I wouldn't use anything lower

The point about Joe Public noticing the difference is true though, only people like ourselves who are into cars or testers etc. will notice it

Anyone else see Fifth Gear last night?

They did a comparison test on standard unleaded angainst some of the "super" petrol brands and the results were a bit dissapointing considering the extra cost of the "super" fuels.

They had a 2012 Golf GTi and run the various fuels on a rolling road and compared the BHP's

BP normal unleaded 236.1 BHP £1.39/litre

BP Ultimate 236.7 BHP £1.47/litre

Shell V Power 240.9 BHP £1.45/litre

Esso Super 240.5 BHP £1.44/litre

Asda normal 235.8 BHP £1.36/litre

I watched it too, pretty interesting to be fair

new GTI's are supposed to have 207hp out of the box. those results are staggering.

Didnt see it, but may search it out to watch that bit. Shell is what my dad always used in his Mk2 Golf valver. He always said it was quicker with that in it.

I've noticed a difference in normal fuels that i've put in the Mk3 polo. It really doesnt like morrisons own, and i'm not putting that crap in my tank again. Made it run noticably worse, and despite having no power anyway, it felt as if it had less poke. Tesco own is better, but esso (from tesco express) is the best by far. Runs alot nicer on that :-)

Don't know what it is with Morrisons fuel, both petrol and diesel are crap from them, polo ran rubbish on it and it'll run on any diesel going

The Golf was a Edition 35 which has 225/230 bhp IIRC

The point about Joe Public noticing the difference is true though, only people like ourselves who are into cars or testers etc. will notice it

Just comparing the BP fuels 8p/litre for a gain of 0.6BHP I very much doubt if anyone would notice the difference in the power and the saving over a year would probably pay for a decent engine mod with noticable powergain?

Even the V power with the biggest power gain 5.1 over Asda's I think you'd be hard pressed to feel the gain in "normal" driving, there might be bit of difference on a track day thrash ??

I think it's more of a physcological thing, as in I'm paying for more expensive petrol therefore it must be giving me more POWER

Didn't watch it, but it'd be interesting to see their test method in detail. Most fuel tests done in this manner end up being fairly unscientific due to lack of understanding of the ever more complex engine management systems in modern cars.

There was a decent test done by a tuner whereby they ran multiple tanks of each test fuel through a vehicle and drove the same test route with power runs at beginning and end, as well as monitoring economy. Whilst the conditions weren't the same control conditions you'd get on a test track or in a test cell, they were at least reasonably repeatable and ensured the EMS had sufficient time to adapt to the test fuel.

Really depends on the car and the EMS calibration as to whether super is worth it or not.

Oh this show is still alive? Someone told me only top gear rulez.

I have got a question, yesterday top gear was on our german tv, it was an episode where they had a competition between the british top gear team and the australian top gear team and boris becker was the famous person in the cheap car, and they tested the ferrari gto.

Does anyone knows how old that episode could be? Maybe the current one, half a year ago or a year? any ideas?

cheers

Christian

Oh this show is still alive? Someone told me only top gear rulez.

I have got a question, yesterday top gear was on our german tv, it was an episode where they had a competition between the british top gear team and the australian top gear team and boris becker was the famous person in the cheap car, and they tested the ferrari gto.

Does anyone knows how old that episode could be? Maybe the current one, half a year ago or a year? any ideas?

cheers

Christian

It's now on the Discovery channel on Sky

That Top Gear episode was originally aired on 30th Jan 2011 (Wikipedia)

Didn't watch it, but it'd be interesting to see their test method in detail. Most fuel tests done in this manner end up being fairly unscientific due to lack of understanding of the ever more complex engine management systems in modern cars.

There was a decent test done by a tuner whereby they ran multiple tanks of each test fuel through a vehicle and drove the same test route with power runs at beginning and end, as well as monitoring economy. Whilst the conditions weren't the same control conditions you'd get on a test track or in a test cell, they were at least reasonably repeatable and ensured the EMS had sufficient time to adapt to the test fuel.

Really depends on the car and the EMS calibration as to whether super is worth it or not.

You mean as in the way trionic7 "learns" the fuel and adapt/"creates" maps to get the most out of what its got.

On morrisons and asda fuel the aero throws up a management light and runs on a low performance map, low boost, with low RPM gear changes (auto). In sport it feels half arsed.

On basic fuels theres no light and it runs a lot better, boost needle actually goes into the red, gear changes happen at a lot higher RPM. sport keeps a big grin on your face.

On Shell Vpower everything is turned up to 11. and thats before you press the "go baby go" button. Turning off ESP creates a wheel spinning monster.

Shouldn't put the MIL on even if you've put shit 95RON in - not if engine and all sensors/actuators are working properly, DI is healthy and you're running the correct plugs. The 9-5 Aeros have a load of one-way valves in the APC solenoid vac lines which tend to break and cock up boost control.

T7 from memory has a knock map (less boost, more fuel and less ignition) that it'll drop into if it sees severe knock, as detected by the Direct Ignition unit measuring spark plug ionisation voltages and deciding the engine is knocking. If it's not bad enough to trigger this map, it'll just tweak its short term adaptions to suit the fuel.

Surprised that you've seen such a difference on yours, my old 9-5 wasn't that different from Tesco 95RON to VPower - whereas the 9000 was markedly different. Having said that, the 9000 had a very aggressive tune and used to hit fuel cut if shit fuel was used and you ragged it.

Going from V-Power to Asda was like putting water in the tank, it ran like crap and guzzled fuel on Asda, never again.

Morrisons is known for containing too much ethanol which damages older fuel systems so i don't go there, but despite not using it i lost my CBR900s to someone's fuel and i think it was that Asda - welded my pilot jets to the bodies. With my current and previous carbs i stuck strictly to Shell and Tesco, nobody else ever, and have had no damage (and good running - though i tuned it on them too).

I use tesco diesel in my caddy it runs fine, I use texaco petrol in the g it ran fine ...

Going from V-Power to Asda was like putting water in the tank, it ran like crap and guzzled fuel on Asda, never again.

Morrisons is known for containing too much ethanol which damages older fuel systems so i don't go there, but despite not using it i lost my CBR900s to someone's fuel and i think it was that Asda - welded my pilot jets to the bodies. With my current and previous carbs i stuck strictly to Shell and Tesco, nobody else ever, and have had no damage (and good running - though i tuned it on them too).

There's a legal limit on the ethanol content of fuel, but Tesco go right up to it - so worth keeping an eye on things if you've had problems in the past.

I run my Polo on Tesco 99RON, but mapped it on that so it runs nicely - but the Datsun daily prefers non-ethanol enhanced Super, even if it's only 97RON Esso.

I noticed an improvement in fuel consumption in the polo when switching from Texaco to Tesco 99, I still put put £20 a week in (so would be getting a bit less fuel) and did the same sort of weekly mileage/driving but had noticeably more left come pay day than I did when I used to use Texaco

Going from V-Power to Asda was like putting water in the tank, it ran like crap and guzzled fuel on Asda, never again.

Morrisons is known for containing too much ethanol which damages older fuel systems so i don't go there, but despite not using it i lost my CBR900s to someone's fuel and i think it was that Asda - welded my pilot jets to the bodies. With my current and previous carbs i stuck strictly to Shell and Tesco, nobody else ever, and have had no damage (and good running - though i tuned it on them too).

There's a legal limit on the ethanol content of fuel, but Tesco go right up to it - so worth keeping an eye on things if you've had problems in the past.

I run my Polo on Tesco 99RON, but mapped it on that so it runs nicely - but the Datsun daily prefers non-ethanol enhanced Super, even if it's only 97RON Esso.

It appears to be just the springs in the pilot jets, they have a gold plating which was stripped off, they went rusty and the cavity was all white with an acid damage effect, welded the thread of the jets to the bodies. Seems to be the only component that reacts. The spring rate isn't greatly important because it's just to keep the thread locked, so i think if i find stainless springs instead then it'll run on anything.

Shouldn't put the MIL on even if you've put shit 95RON in - not if engine and all sensors/actuators are working properly, DI is healthy and you're running the correct plugs. The 9-5 Aeros have a load of one-way valves in the APC solenoid vac lines which tend to break and cock up boost control.

T7 from memory has a knock map (less boost, more fuel and less ignition) that it'll drop into if it sees severe knock, as detected by the Direct Ignition unit measuring spark plug ionisation voltages and deciding the engine is knocking. If it's not bad enough to trigger this map, it'll just tweak its short term adaptions to suit the fuel.

Surprised that you've seen such a difference on yours, my old 9-5 wasn't that different from Tesco 95RON to VPower - whereas the 9000 was markedly different. Having said that, the 9000 had a very aggressive tune and used to hit fuel cut if shit fuel was used and you ragged it.

The 9000 we had would run most things but the knock light would flash under full boost with supermarket petrol. But the 95 seems to sulk if we but inferior petrol in. The MPG is also a lot worse on basic fuel compared to High Octanes.

The episode is being repeated tomorrow (27/09) 12:00 Sky ch 250

My old 1.0 6n would run happily on anything.

The 1.4 Lupo wouldn't run well on Morrisons or Asda fuel but Tesco 95 was fine. Running it on 99 made no noticeable difference to anything.

I've often heard it said that you only feel a performance difference if you increase the BHP by 10% so on that basis none of those fuels would make it noticeably faster.

Id still run a tuned/performance car on 99 though, i like the engine to run right.

Shouldn't put the MIL on even if you've put shit 95RON in - not if engine and all sensors/actuators are working properly, DI is healthy and you're running the correct plugs. The 9-5 Aeros have a load of one-way valves in the APC solenoid vac lines which tend to break and cock up boost control.

T7 from memory has a knock map (less boost, more fuel and less ignition) that it'll drop into if it sees severe knock, as detected by the Direct Ignition unit measuring spark plug ionisation voltages and deciding the engine is knocking. If it's not bad enough to trigger this map, it'll just tweak its short term adaptions to suit the fuel.

Surprised that you've seen such a difference on yours, my old 9-5 wasn't that different from Tesco 95RON to VPower - whereas the 9000 was markedly different. Having said that, the 9000 had a very aggressive tune and used to hit fuel cut if shit fuel was used and you ragged it.

The 9000 we had would run most things but the knock light would flash under full boost with supermarket petrol. But the 95 seems to sulk if we but inferior petrol in. The MPG is also a lot worse on basic fuel compared to High Octanes.

Unless it's been remapped, sounds like there's something wrong with the 9-5. What plugs are in it?

Right plugs (i know how badly the wrong plugs effect the runnihg and the DI) , engine light always points to Lambda Sensor 1 but has no pattern when i check the freeze frame, the only contributor has been putting fuel in at at Morrisons or Tesco 20-30 miles previous, fill up with V-power and the light goes out on its own.

Everything else seems fine, all vac pipes were replaced by me as stock items were perished, one way valves were replaced after we picked it up, has custom exhaust from 2nd catalyst back.

only serious issue weve had was the fuel pump dying.

The guy we bought it off had driven it once and parked it up for 3 months, the previous owner was a Traffic Cop so suspicions are it might be Stage 1 Tuned, I've been trying to find what the rough max boost is supposed to be (bearing in mind the stock gauge anything over 14psi is in the red) for the engine to see if what the obd11 unit says is right.

mine runs shit on morrisons too

Right plugs (i know how badly the wrong plugs effect the runnihg and the DI) , engine light always points to Lambda Sensor 1 but has no pattern when i check the freeze frame, the only contributor has been putting fuel in at at Morrisons or Tesco 20-30 miles previous, fill up with V-power and the light goes out on its own.

Everything else seems fine, all vac pipes were replaced by me as stock items were perished, one way valves were replaced after we picked it up, has custom exhaust from 2nd catalyst back.

only serious issue weve had was the fuel pump dying.

The guy we bought it off had driven it once and parked it up for 3 months, the previous owner was a Traffic Cop so suspicions are it might be Stage 1 Tuned, I've been trying to find what the rough max boost is supposed to be (bearing in mind the stock gauge anything over 14psi is in the red) for the engine to see if what the obd11 unit says is right.

Presume you know the Aero should have different plugs too? Mine (and most of the UK-Saabs lot) ran stock 9-5 plugs, but it felt better after a fresh set of the correct platinums. In-dash gauge is bollocks on a 9-5 anyway, it's not really displaying boost - just engine load, so you need to get a gauge on there to know what's going on.

Base boost should be 0.45 bar +/- 0.05 bar from memory, spent ages messing around with mine. Set it too high and you'll hit overboost fuel cut. Stock boost level with APC valve plugged in should be 1 bar on an Aero. Stage 1 doesn't really take it much beyond that, just brings it in earlier. My 9-5 was holding about 1.1 bar on stage 1. The chocolate rods and pistons mean you can't boost 'em like you can the older B234Rs in the 9000, my 9000 ran 1.5 bar on the TD04 but it's getting a GT30 on now.

You probably do have a tired lambda probe. Cheaper supermarket fuel generally has a reasonable amount of ethanol content, and adding ethanol changes the stoichiometric AFR, so it'll potentially throw a probe right on the limit just over sufficiently to trigger the DTC.

Incidentally, if it's had a Trionic Suite DIY remap, then chances are it'll have 'OpenSID' enabled. Press and hold the + and - buttons together on the SID to find out.

Didnt think about trying the open SID. ill give it a go in the morning. TBH the SID isnt much use as it needs the ribbon replacing as a lot of the pixel's have gone dead.

Ye, its a shame that they didnt build them like they used too, i need to check the boost with a gauge and not the OBD2 plug then?

I suspected the tired probe too but ECP in the ability keep sending me the second sensor with a black plug, regardles of what i order. when the light comes on the sensor just displays a constant voltage and not the normal voltage sweep it should have.

which plugs did you use? ill check that over too this weekend.

I've got the T7 suite on my laptop but not had a chance to use it on the car.