Jump to content
harris.racing

Forged AEE internals

Recommended Posts

harris.racing

So, considering boosting the AEE to make it more exciting/scary...

Will probably go for the turbo option instead of a charger due to gearbox issues, but the way I see it is that if youre boosting something, it may aswel be done properly!

Plus the fact the AEE rods and pistons are weak anyway so...

Current comp ratio is circa 10.5:1 due to head skimmage...

I know the AEE rods are unique to that, and I'm not sure forged pistons for a 6n 8v engine are available due to half the combustion chamber being in the piston.

Iv had a browse around, and found that:

G40 77mm forged pistons could be used, which would drop (based on standard numbers) the comp to around 8:1, wossners that is, so would need a slight overbore as my engines currently on 76.5mm pistons.

Also seen a few vague bits and bobs mentioning 20vt rods are the same as AEE apart from the wrist pin size...well dimesionally anyway (mainly centre to centre)

So I could get new wrist pin bushes to suit the forged piston gudeon pins, and potentially grind down the bottom of the rods width (much like guy has) if they're too wide for the AEE crank spacing.

Ideally id want around 8.5:1 comp ratio, definately run over a bar of boost, would be on a PhilJ special turbo manifold, to an intercooler, to a plenum, through bike carbs, using megajolt management.

Head is already ported and such, which is probably more boost suited anywho (id probably fully polish the inlet ports) also have 3 angle valve seats, although I'm not sure the reduced contact area will cope with the upped cylinder temps on the exhaust side of things.

Setting the carbs/management up doesnt really bother me, be using a MAP sensor, plenty of info on turbo bikes with carbs and with the use of det cans etc the ignition should be able to be mapped safely.

Just weighing up the internals options tbh, I know I can get custom made forged pistons, not sure on rods though.

I cant wait for replies saying this is pointless, or expensive etc, what i want to know is how expensive, and not from someone who has sat and read about two posts, says ''about £5k, put a 1.8t in''

I know theres some real good knowledge on here about the internal components, i might buy a cheap AEE to measure up/fuck around with to aid me.

If anyone has AEE piston dimensions, gudgeon pin diameter, and the rod dimensions it would be good!

IIRC guegeon pin size maybe 17, not 100% now, its been a while! Think the big ends are the same diameter as a 1.8t/lots of other vw tings, rod width and centres would be ideal though!

Any useful info appreciated, keyboard warriors, i dont need telling how pointless/stupid/expensive it is, so dont even bother hitting that reply button!

thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
GiorgioGT

Shameless plug - Want to buy a 1341 engine (the whole 9 yards) with eaton kit + all the toys to go with?

Failing that Speak to Arrow precision if your interested in rods. Cant remeber how much exactly but if you are not wanting them made from unobtanium then they are ~£140

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
varnish

rod length appears to be 144mm.

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=275496

AEE pin is 17mm

PY pin is 20mm

20vt pin is 20mm

I'm not sure what the compression height of the wossner pistons are, but the PY has a compression height of 40.17mm, the AEE piston 30.85mm

So they wouldn't work, unless you changed the rod length and/or stroke which defeats the object.

The 20vt rod is, I think, too wide for the journal. They can be turned down. I'm not sure how suitable that solution is though.

Bushing the 20vt rod to take the AEE piston would move the piston down 1.5mm, reducing the clearance volume by 6.9cc which puts the CR at about 8.3 (closer to 8.9 in your case due to the skimming).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing

I dont understand why bushing the 20vt rod would bring it down? If the centres are the same? Or are they not? lol. Unless you mean an offset bush?

Rods maybe doable then, but issue with the thin 8v pistons which like to melt hmm.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
brewsterpros

Very interested in this dude will see if I can find anything out as I'd love to turbo a aee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
willsalter1000

i thought about this while back, best setup i thought would be

Aee block bored to 77mm

aee crank

g60 conrods with small end rebushed to 20mm, the big end would most porbally have to machined narrower

77mm forged g40 pistons

flat face hydro head, e.g g40, gt, 1.3 car/spi, bigger ports and valves than the aee head

so basically a overbore g40 thats been stroked

i liked the idea of then bolting a g60 charger on making it kind of a mini g60 motor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
varnish
I dont understand why bushing the 20vt rod would bring it down? If the centres are the same? Or are they not? lol. Unless you mean an offset bush?

Rods maybe doable then, but issue with the thin 8v pistons which like to melt hmm.

yeah i was just testing you :oops:

You're quite right, the centres wouldn't change. Do you ever have one of those days?

I don't think offset bushing is a viable option either as the bush will want to spin.

How about afh pistons?

The compression height is 28.9mm, pin is 17mm.

Realistically though, I think you're going to need custom pistons, unless you can find some forged jobbies from a different engine that can be machined to fit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing

Would that still equate to around a 1.6 though?

Trying to work it out in my head lol. Surely the piston would need to be more dished/shorter to keep the comp down due to using the flat head but then you lose displacement?

Really cant think straight haha!

Not sure I feel the need to use a flat face head, surely that'd rocket the comp up?

I love the idea of a charger, and had thought g40/60/eaton, but i just think ill be breaking boxes all the while

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing
I dont understand why bushing the 20vt rod would bring it down? If the centres are the same? Or are they not? lol. Unless you mean an offset bush?

Rods maybe doable then, but issue with the thin 8v pistons which like to melt hmm.

yeah i was just testing you :oops:

You're quite right, the centres wouldn't change. Do you ever have one of those days?

I don't think offset bushing is a viable option either as the bush will want to spin.

How about afh pistons?

The compression height is 28.9mm, pin is 17mm.

Realistically though, I think you're going to need custom pistons, unless you can find some forged jobbies from a different engine that can be machined to fit.

Yeah id never even attempt to use offset bushes, dont like that idea at all haha!

Dont the AFH pistons have valve cutouts and are flat? Whereas AEE are dished?

Wish I had a shed full of small block vw engines about now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StinkyPete

yeah dont use offset bushes as if they spin it will be pistons on valves and i did guys rods for him

afh pistons have a little dish and yeah have valve cut outs

you would need to skim the little and big end of the 20vt rods width wise as the small blocks use 20mm thick rods and the 20vt use 25mm thick

you can get away with 22mm for the big end though and the big ends are all the same on most of the vw engines cant remember exact size but they are

il keep checking back and seeing if i can help more mate as I've learnt shitloads off here for mine and still need to learn more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing

If I can cobble something together, it'll be fully sick haha, just making it work. Tbh for the effort required to do this I could just start fresh and forge a 1.6 16v instead lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikeyMK

AEE block is tall. Bizarrely tall. That's why the rods are so long. If you used a 1.4 cylinder block, which is shorter, you could run shorter rods - like the 1.6 16v engines do (perhaps 1.8T rods with modification). But then you'd need a spacer plate.

I don't know how long 1.4 rods are compared to the AEE's rods, they're longer than 1.6 16v by the stroke difference, but i don't know if the AEE has 1.4 rods and the block is just higher by the stroke difference - i suspect so. I can't see the 1.4 and 1.6 rods being 1-2mm different and also having different deck heights, and then different pistons.. But the rods are worth checking for size.

First then is working out how you're gonna build the bottom end. Because if you put 1.6 16v rods and 1.4 16v pistons in your AEE block then you'll have a much stronger bottom end but the piston will be several mm's from the deck height at TDC and your compression ratio will be low enough for a couple of K04's.. But then you could use a flat-face head from a 1.3, and you should be somewhere close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StinkyPete

afh and 20vt rods are both 144mm centre to centre just so that info is in here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mclovin

AEE rods are 144mm

AFH rods are 144mm

1.8t rods are 144mm

AVY rods are 138mm

G60 rods are 136mm

All have the same size big ends but the wrist pins are different

Get the fucker boosted arris

Edited by Mclovin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
prankstar2003

No need to fully polish the ports Nick. This has no increase to flow comared to de-burred ports and may actually cause a reduction in fuel atomisation as the rough surface helpd to agitate the mix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StinkyPete

Yeah doesn't porting and polishing help more with normally aspirated engines as boosted engines the air is forced in anyways

Also if your getting custom forged pistons you could use the 20vt rods and just slim the big end as you could get the pistons made to match the small end thickness and 20mm gudgeon pin and let me know where you get your forged pistons as I want some for mine ideally for more boost later on ;)

Edited by StinkyPete

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
varnish
Yeah doesn't porting and polishing help more with normally aspirated engines as boosted engines the air is forced in anyways

The air is still forced in with a naturally aspired engine. Its just the pressure difference is greater with a boosted engine.

Porting may actually have a greater effect on a boosted engine due to the increased density of the air.

The heavier (denser) the air the greater the momentum and therefore the greater the resistance to changing direction.

I believe that porting, smoothing, increasing radii and good valve jobs will net more improvement in boosted engines than NA.

But its a lot cheaper to just turn the boost up and get the same airflow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mclovin

Moar boost!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KiZ

the 1W uses G40 pistons with a lower deck height, potential off the shelf pistons if they will be short enough

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing

So if AFH rods are the same length can't I just get forged AFH rods with some custom pistons?

I thought P+P was better fully smooth on boost but rough inlet on NA to aid mix/atomisation.

But as you say, more boost..hence making it strong

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
StinkyPete

There isn't any forged afh rods mate that's why I went 20vt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing

I thought Dans16vt was forged? Anyway, rods are fairly easily sorted then, just the pistons to address!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
DANZ_16VT
2425354[/url]']

I thought Dans16vt was forged? Anyway, rods are fairly easily sorted then, just the pistons to address!

Mine has forged rods and pistons. That's as much as I can really help as I purchased the engine about 2 years ago already forged. Dunno if it helps but my pistons measure 77.5 mm instead of the standard 76.5 as I had to have set of total seal rings made for them when I rebuilt it! As the top 2 rings Measured like 2 mil thick and oil ring like 2.5. I phoned all the piston company's and they had nothing that matched any of the sizes I gave!

Don't the 1.4 8v aex pistons have a bigger dish than aee. As half the combustion chamber is in the aee head but on the aex most of the Combustion is in the piston. So 20v rods and aex pistons in a aee block with aee head would lower the compression! Not sure to what figure! Just depends how strong the aex pistons are I imagine not very and that would be the weak point!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
harris.racing

AEX is the 1.4 isn't it, so be 76.5's which wouldnt be an issue, depends how strong they are.

It's either uprated internals and 20psi+ boost or standard AEE with dropped comp and like sub 10psi with a G charger.

Second option a lot easier but proper feeble

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mclovin

Are the standard 8v pistons really that weak? I know they are different pistons but the standard abd (is that the right code?) 1.4 pistons have taken 20psi+ with material removed from them and that was on a carbed turbo lump so not as accurately tuned as a if it was injected and properly mapped

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines