Now i'm running washers on the rear of my 6n2 and have done for a while now and had no problems except I think my wheel bearings have taken a disliking to the situation so will have to change them over at some point...however I did see that there was a "trick" when doing the washer thing...add 1 extra washer on the front bolt...so if 1 on the back bolt then 2 on the front...etc etc.

I was led to believe this was to correct any toe issues (or at least help), but my thinking is that due to the polo using a fixed rear beam...with (what i assume) is a dead flat face to which the stub axle fixes to...then surely by adding washers to the bottom 2 bolts holding the stub axle on it shouldn't affect the toe angle of the rear wheels, just the camber?

Interested to hear peoples thoughts on this as my thinking is that by adding the extra washer on the front bolt would actually cause toe out? Possibly another reason my bearings have started to wine?

Luke

Get camber shims and do the job properly, you ain't ever gonna get anything accurate with washers.

Search.

Covered loads. I have no more input to this.

Get camber shims and do the job properly, you ain't ever gonna get anything accurate with washers.

also trying to adjust toe with washers and no way of measuring the toe angle will not be accurate and can lead to dangerous handling characteristics and excessive tyre wear.

There should be some positive toe on the rear anyway

The shims are only like £20. Its not worth the arse ache of fucking about with washers for the sake of twenty quid.

right...it appears everybody has read this as a thread regarding whether I should get washers...it is not anything of the sort;

I already run them...now if some of you dislike the idea then thats fine...but it's not the reason i'm posting...please read the OP properly first as i'd be interested to see if my thinking is correct

thanks

Are you lowered? As at your ride height the bottom two bolts will more than likely be around 4 & 7'o clock instead of both level.

It's a strange thought thinking something has been specifically designed to do the job exactly for this.

They're only advertised as camber shims so people on the scene buy them, they're actually alignment shims.

Are you lowered? As at your ride height the bottom two bolts will more than likely be around 4 & 7'o clock instead of both level.

It's a strange thought thinking something has been specifically designed to do the job exactly for this.

They're only advertised as camber shims so people on the scene buy them, they're actually alignment shims.

Thankyou!

Yes i am lowered, now without me sounding like a complete 'tard...could you explain to me how being lower effects the toe angle of the rear wheels on a car using a fixed rear beam? As surely (without washers) just by going lower you are just bringing the beam closer to the car?

(this is not a thread designed for washer-shim debate)

Think about where the beam is mounted

The beam is only fitted in one place, and has a swinging action as it goes over bumps and adjusts to road surface.

Imagine you rear beam as the hour hand on a clock at 3 o'clock in a normal ride height, where your bonnet would be beyond the 9 o'clock position directly opposite. The centre pin would be like the bush/rear beam mounts. As the car gets closer to the ground (lowered or suspension adjusting to a bump) then the hands of the clock will move anti-clockwise. As you raise the car or the suspension once again drops (think gettin 'air' over a bump) the rear beam swings in a clockwise position.

Now you have 4 bolts that are in two pairs mounted parallel to the floor (clock hands). Therefore as the relative angle of the beam changes in relation to the floor, so will the position of the bolts in relation to the middle of our clock. Since the polo runs a certain amount of toe as standard, moving the position of the wheel (as described, due to it being attached to the beam) alters the toe angle. So actually lowering a car with positive toe increases the toe angle, thus an additional washer behind the rear bolt helps to bring everything back into line. However, it can't be accurate enough

If you had a car where the beam was attached in two places, like a caddy's cart spring set up, then as you moved the beam closer to the car (lowering) then it would move parallel. However, because a swinging arm does just that, swing, any angle change of the beam is reflected by anything bolted to it (like wheels) with any additional angles (toe, camber) altering also.

Edited 23 November, 201213 yr by prankstar2003

Good enough explination Simon. Basically looking from the left of the car (passenger side)

You need to put an extra washer behind the front bolt, not the rear, that will make it worse.

Also if you put a washer under each bottom bolt, due to the beam swinging you effectively add more toe in

Positive toe, doesn't that mean toe out?

Nah toe in mate.

Well that's what the alignment rig at work thinks anyway lol!

Fair enough, then yes, you'd want a washer in the place you described.

It'd never be right though, due to everyday variables. You could have the rear wheels pointing toe-out, then put two passengers in the car, and then the rear wheels will be pointing toe-in.

Camber and fixed-hub trailing arms simply do not mix.

Same with the front though Mikey aha.

You get in and the camber change when you go into bump effects the toe too. Isn't so bad with harder suspension.

The VW alignment procedure is quite thorough really, involves measuring ride heights and ballast and such.

Just generally inaccurate to use washers lol

Great analagy prankstar; many thanks - I guess i wasn't accounting for the fact that the beam is mounted to the car infront of the actual beam...thus resulting in the stub axle bolt positions actually rotating as the beam moves closer to the car (or the car is lowered) so effectively what you are saying that instead of the bolts running parallel to the road (as per standard perhaps?) the bolts all turn anti-clockwise?

Definitely had to read it twice though to make head and tail of what you were saying!

And harris i appreciate that washers aren't the most accurate way (or in any way accurate at all tbh!) but it's done now and my access to a ramp/ANYWHERE to actually work on the car is limited i'll just leave them for now (roll on house move to a house with a sodding drive! :( )

Thanks for a decent response folks!

the fact is 'a washer each side' will be wrong anyway.

doubt if you measured a standard car with a beam each side would be equal anywho

any iv measured havnt been tbh.

hence shims. you measure it, then set them to correct each side the fit. you just have to index the shims to compensate for being lowered