Tonight 19:30 ITV 1 The Tonight program investigates the calls for possible changes for newly qualified drivers ie passenger bans and night time driving

Surely the police have better things to do though as if they ban night time driving then the police will be pulling over hundreds if not thousands a night to check age etc. personally I think if it does come in it will soon fizzle out as it would be to hard to enforce but we will see what happens

Does this mean all the fit Polski birds will no longer work my night shift? So i get slow english people instead? How will i keep my efficiencies up..?

wont affect me so I'm not fussed! yahooooooooo

It's a difficult one. I'm not sure on official figures regarding deaths per year, but there's been several fatal crashes recently round me where new drivers have wiped themselves and passengers out. There was also a crash involving pupils from our school last year where the driver (with 2 male, 2 female passengers) was messing about, swerving about the road. He eventually lost control and you can guess the rest. No one was killed (amazingly) but would he have been pratting about if he was driving on his own? And if he was would he have endangered so many 'innocent' others?

On the other hand I'm sure there are plenty of sensible drivers about, including myself when I was 17. Within weeks of passing I was driving 3 friends up to blackpool (good couple of hundred miles in rush hour m6 traffic!) for the weekend in an old breadvan. No one died on that journey.

Something needs to be done, but I'm not usre banning these people from carrying passengers is really the right way. Education is really the key, from home ideally. Convincing kids that they don't have to drive fast when encouraged and giving kids the confidence to tell their mates to fuck off if they continue to do so. Maybe a ban on the engine size/power would be a potential step, but then plenty of damage can be done with a 1l.

Banning young people from carrying passengers, so now instead of one car being driven by a young lad trying to show off to his mates in his car, you will have four cars being driven by young lads trying to show off to each other. On the plus side it will mean more cars on the road and (and i'm sure it a total coincidence) will also mean more money for the government.

Banning people who have just passed from driving at night, all well and good until these people have been driving long enough to drive at night and still have no experience in doing so. It's just moving the problem up the age range rather than addressing it. Less kids die in night time crashes, statistics show the government have achieved what they said they would, not mentioning that now more slightly older people are being killed in night time car crashes due to inexperience.

If they really wanted to cut road deaths in new drivers they would teach them how to drive properly. You can't teach people to be responsible, that is something you learn through experience. What you can do is teach them how to deal with situations properly and hope they can be responsible enough to use it wisely.

Or they could just do what they always do and increase tax on something we like to do to show us how bad for us it is.

i think this is rediculase i guess by driving at night they mean in the dark if so what will happen in the winter when people are drive from work its going to be dark so they will have no point in even having a car if all it would be doing is sat on your drive doing nothing because its dark when you get home from and theres no point driving it to work if theres no way of you getting home without possibly getting caught and loosing your licence

^^ The night ban mentioned was between 23:00 ~ 04:00

Surely the police have better things to do though as if they ban night time driving then the police will be pulling over hundreds if not thousands a night to check age etc. personally I think if it does come in it will soon fizzle out as it would be to hard to enforce but we will see what happens

Telematics makes it easy. All young drivers will have to put a black box in their car to get insurance, if they're detected driving in the early hours then it'll show up on a computer. Easy peasy.

You could point out here that it's problematic for kids using their parents' car but they'll probably have a situation where they can deactivate it and if the kid uses the car they're uninsured.

But it's not that difficult to put in place.

In N Ireland don't they already have restrictions on newly passed drivers? I know they used to have to display a red "P" plate for so many months after passing the test, and there is a similar thing in place in Australia

Banning young people from carrying passengers, so now instead of one car being driven by a young lad trying to show off to his mates in his car, you will have four cars being driven by young lads trying to show off to each other. On the plus side it will mean more cars on the road and (and i'm sure it a total coincidence) will also mean more money for the government.

At least some of the problems come from those who can drive ferrying their mates about. It's these friends that can't drive that may cause the encouragement of reckless driving, or the drivers to to impress their friends because they can drive whilst other can't. There is also the argument for distractions I guess. A little cynical to think the government want to make money from this (we've had this discussion before! )

Banning people who have just passed from driving at night, all well and good until these people have been driving long enough to drive at night and still have no experience in doing so. It's just moving the problem up the age range rather than addressing it. Less kids die in night time crashes, statistics show the government have achieved what they said they would, not mentioning that now more slightly older people are being killed in night time car crashes due to inexperience.

Do you not think people mature as they grow older and thus engage in less risky activities, such as driving fast, trying to impress etc? I will agress though, experience is by far the best way for people to learn. So though I disagree the problem will just be shifted up a few years, I do think there is a possibility of bad driving by those who have not had the experience.

If they really wanted to cut road deaths in new drivers they would teach them how to drive properly. You can't teach people to be responsible, that is something you learn through experience. What you can do is teach them how to deal with situations properly and hope they can be responsible enough to use it wisely.

True. The driving test is pretty piss poor, and you're only likely to encounter a limited amount of situations when learning to drive. I was lucky enough to have parents who encouraged me to drive as soon as I could, practically forcing me to drive everywhere whenever I was in the car. Not that I needed much encouragment. I also took a fair while to pass my test, getting plenty of experience under my belt, all through autumn, winter and spring. I also used to ferry the family around thus getting used to a full car. Obviously very little of this is covered in the test as it stands. And if you learn in the summer you're very unlikelly to ever drive in the dark.

Worse than this is those intensive courses. I have always had a problem with these and encourage any of those at school to avoid them so they can gain experience. I'm not sure what participation of these courses is like in terms of numbers, but my first step would be to ban them. Additionally new drivers could be made to drive in a variety of situations/conditions before being eligible for a test similar to how a gas fitter must work up a portfolio of work. Difficult to implement but not impossible. Pass plus could also be made cumpolsory

Despite roads being busier now, the majority of us more mature members managed to make it through our first few years on the road intact. Attitudes of young people have changed. A lack of responsbility overall. I'm sure, has contributed to a relaxed approach by some to the road. But are road deaths any greater amongst this group than they were compared to 10 years ago?

In the end it's another reactionary idea meant to cure some great problem that, though awful for anyone harmed by road accidents, is an inevitable result of a motorised nation. Driving is a risk, and as such we need to accept people will die. Young men are idiots and thus will proportionally cause more accidents. Interventions are required, but these are half baked ideas from a government that is trying to please too many voters.

Edited 15 December, 201213 yr by prankstar2003

Even though you can do training for some things, would that not also encourage "driving like dicks" because I've done a course I'm now a good driver and won't crash. Oh diesel on a wet island, now I'm on my roof

Harris: you left out accidents caused by poorly maintained roads, old drivers with cars they really cant handle.....

the list goes on.

In the last 2 nights I've had to deal with some serious idiot driving. Including one 18YOF who rammed a on-scene Ambulance as it was blocking the road because she was late and needed to get past......said female was arrested.

The only place that bitch got quick was to the station

Banning young people from carrying passengers, so now instead of one car being driven by a young lad trying to show off to his mates in his car, you will have four cars being driven by young lads trying to show off to each other. On the plus side it will mean more cars on the road and (and i'm sure it a total coincidence) will also mean more money for the government.

Banning people who have just passed from driving at night, all well and good until these people have been driving long enough to drive at night and still have no experience in doing so. It's just moving the problem up the age range rather than addressing it. Less kids die in night time crashes, statistics show the government have achieved what they said they would, not mentioning that now more slightly older people are being killed in night time car crashes due to inexperience.

If they really wanted to cut road deaths in new drivers they would teach them how to drive properly. You can't teach people to be responsible, that is something you learn through experience. What you can do is teach them how to deal with situations properly and hope they can be responsible enough to use it wisely.

Or they could just do what they always do and increase tax on something we like to do to show us how bad for us it is.

THIS!!!

they need to start teaching new drivers how to actually drive, rather than how to pass their test.

Even though you can do training for some things, would that not also encourage "driving like dicks" because I've done a course I'm now a good driver and won't crash. Oh diesel on a wet island, now I'm on my roof

No I don't. Training would be more to increase the amount of experience, which all agree is the key to safe driving. Guy's right in that you can't teach responsibility and thus you will always get dicks and accidents (Ceri point proves that).

Ok i'm gonna be cold about this then. Anyone who rams an ambulance to get it to move, maybe car crashes are their form of natural selection.

Banning night time driving doesn't make sense though, if anything as some other people have said it's about making the test better and educating people better about what happens when you crash. Mean a while back now top gear had a clip in finland about their rally drivers that partly explained how teenagers learn to drive there too, Something along the lines of a two year training including time on a skid pad with the wet tarmac loosing control and other situation related exercises. Not saying new drivers should have to learn for two years but maybe something like a 6 month training course you can start at 16 and 1/2 where you spend time on wet tarmac and get to drive a car in an open space quickly and the instrucor makes it go out of control so you experience that shit your pants feeling when your car doesn't do what you want it to.

Yep. Driving without due care apparently and damaging an emergency vehicle. Car impounded too. Ambulance was returned to duty straight away as we were stretched to braking point.

In another note do Speed Camera Vans work in the dark? Spotted one tonight on the way home at around 6ish.

Atleast introducing the idea of banning late night driving for young drivers distracts us all from the lack of funding for more ambulances . . .

They must work in the dark right? Don't they just work on radar.

In the end it's another reactionary idea meant to cure some great problem that, though awful for anyone harmed by road accidents, is an inevitable result of a motorised nation. Driving is a risk, and as such we need to accept people will die. Young men are idiots and thus will proportionally cause more accidents. Interventions are required, but these are half baked ideas from a government that is trying to please too many voters.

I can't be arsed with replying to that whole post (some bits I agree with, some I don't), so i'll just say I 100% agree with this bit

Edited 16 December, 201213 yr by Mclovin

joe420 that top gear feature has stuck in my mind since I saw it, ok they tend to have much harsher weather to deal with than us but it makes so much sense to give new drivers experience in what happens when shit goes pear

joe420 that top gear feature has stuck in my mind since I saw it, ok they tend to have much harsher weather to deal with than us but it makes so much sense to give new drivers experience in what happens when shit goes pear

i agree with that i would be a good experiance to have for every driver as its not always young drivers that cause problems on the road, i was in an accident where it wasnt my fault but it was down to the fault of a person who was in there 40s who had a expensive flash car, age might mean u will have experiance driving but it doesnt mean that you will use it and have common sense.

and to touch on the night driving what about the young drivers who are working these arse off to be able to drive and afford to run a car that has to work nights?

are the goverment going to turn round and say "no you cant drive in the dark so your going to have to quit your job" and saying that it doesnt matter about having a car to work nights. as it does as where i work i work nights and my place of work can not be accessed by other than a car, as there is no local transport and from where i live i am the closest employee and it would take me over an hour to get to work on a bike and longer by foot

In the end it's another reactionary idea meant to cure some great problem that, though awful for anyone harmed by road accidents, is an inevitable result of a motorised nation. Driving is a risk, and as such we need to accept people will die. Young men are idiots and thus will proportionally cause more accidents. Interventions are required, but these are half baked ideas from a government that is trying to please too many voters.

I can't be arsed with replying to that whole post (some bits I agree with, some I don't), so i'll just say I 100% agree with this bit

Never? Agree? this is becoming a habit!

The Scandanavian test featured on top gear is a good idea, and makes a lot of sense in a snow filled land, but not something too applicable here. Again, I can't quote figures, but I'm unsure if weather is a big factor in many accidents here. However, giving new drivers the chance to rag fuck out of some cars to find the limits would be a good idea. On a skid pan, in the dark whatever, but somewhere safe. Allowing kids to drive at 16, but pass when 17 may encourage a little more responsibility. But then cost becomes a large factor there. Lessons are already pricey enough without needing more and/or specialist training (night, skid pan etc.).

As Guy hinted at above, it's responsibility that somehow needs to be impressed on some of these kids. At school the 6th form have a yearly trip to some road safety course. Part of it is where they have severely disabled people who have been involved in RTAs come and talk to the kids, with parents of the dead too. They top it all off by showing a gruesomely detailed video with plenty of crashes and dead folk. Hard hitting and the kids come away claiming it has an impact. But once in the drivers seat how much is remembered?

Part of what kept me driving slowly and safely was purely the fact I was driving a death trap at 17 that didn't much like anything above 60. The biggest detterent was cost though. If i crashed it, I had to pay for it. Enough to keep me trundling along at 30. Maybe we ought to save all these old cars from the crusher and give them to kids so they are less of a danger to others and mostly a danger to themselves.

and to touch on the night driving what about the young drivers who are working these arse off to be able to drive and afford to run a car that has to work nights?

That won't be a problem once the Government (due to a Labour initiative mind) make secondary education cumpolsury for another 2 years. By that time they should be allowed to drive at night!

The scheme is riddled with problems as all reactionary policies are. I'll be very suprised if this is implemented as it is, if at all. Just look at the supposed MOT reforms. No different!

and to touch on the night driving what about the young drivers who are working these arse off to be able to drive and afford to run a car that has to work nights?

That won't be a problem once the Government (due to a Labour initiative mind) make secondary education cumpolsury for another 2 years. By that time they should be allowed to drive at night!

The scheme is riddled with problems as all reactionary policies are. I'll be very suprised if this is implemented as it is, if at all. Just look at the supposed MOT reforms. No different!

what are they saying the age is going to be for driving at night ?

and if i have heard correct the secondary education is only cumpolsury till 18 if at 16 you dont work out of school straight into a job or into another form of education

so basicly at 16 someone can work out of school and into working at Mcdonalds where they work shifts