Nope, apparently (and I'm a teacher and have heard very little about this!) 16 year olds will have to be in formal education. That may be 6th form/college or an apprenticeship etc. but they must have a qualification at the end of it (or at least have had the ability to gain one).

My point really was a dig at that particular scheme, in a similar way to the driving scheme in question. They are both showers of shite

Would deffinately help to give more hands on experience loosing control of a car. Gotta admit at the age of 17 or so i'd still of been a dick when i first got on the road. Nothing really makes you respect driving your death trap than crashing it . . . a few times Atleast with the further experience when learning there'd be more of a chance of saving yourself from the crash at the last moment, wich would still shit you up a bit and make you think twice next time. This whole subject will dissapear when there's less serious topics in the news to distract people from, wouldn't be too worried if you're waiting to turn 17 and get to drive atlast.

Edited 16 December, 201213 yr by joe420

I got into documetary material regarding vehicle safety, development, road history and design etc etc long after my first accident. A series called 'Car Junkies' was good for this (unlike Top/Fifth Gear which are magazines, and rarely feature such, although Fifth Gear have made some acute effort in the past).

This interest was educational to a degree i believe should be taught to people before they're given a licence. But such education isn't given. The practice in the past, and in my day, was to simply sell licences. After all, that is the agenda. And it's really no different today, but for a bit of extra red tape to make it look a more responsible practice.

But no, there's so much compulsory material out there to educate students, there should be a transport subject of education people need to learn before they can obtain a licence. And this needs to be available in schools, along side english, maths etc.. And all the optional stuff.

People will still die, just as they do in every other field of life, and always will, but at least they will have been reasonably educated first.

Education in schools won't fix the problem, what do you have in mind for them to learn? Or are you thinking of practical based education where everyone drives about? If it's the latter, where would funding come from?

The problem isn't a lack of education, people know that speeding increases the chance of an accident etc. It's attitudes that need changing. It's similar to health interventions. People are aware of the risks of smoking, eating like pigs and a lack of exercise but that doesn't stop people from engaging in (or not engaging in) thsoe sorts of lifestyles.

The Scandanavian test featured on top gear is a good idea, and makes a lot of sense in a snow filled land, but not something too applicable here. Again, I can't quote figures, but I'm unsure if weather is a big factor in many accidents here. However, giving new drivers the chance to rag fuck out of some cars to find the limits would be a good idea. On a skid pan, in the dark whatever, but somewhere safe. Allowing kids to drive at 16, but pass when 17 may encourage a little more responsibility. But then cost becomes a large factor there. Lessons are already pricey enough without needing more and/or specialist training (night, skid pan etc.).

It doesn't just take bad weather for inexperience to bite you in the arse, the first time I ever encountered lift off over steer I was doing about 80mph and ended up bouncing off hedge rows on both sides of the road multiple times while trying to keep control. This was on a nice warm summers day

Would I of still of been driving like that had I of had some form of car control course? Without a doubt, but at least I would of known what to expect and what to do when it did happen

As for increased costs, just scrap the waste of time theory test, at least it would be being replaced with something that would actually come in handy when they are on the road

Telematics makes it easy. All young drivers will have to put a black box in their car to get insurance, if they're detected driving in the early hours then it'll show up on a computer. Easy peasy.

You could point out here that it's problematic for kids using their parents' car but they'll probably have a situation where they can deactivate it and if the kid uses the car they're uninsured.

But it's not that difficult to put in place.

don't even go there...

It doesn't just take bad weather for inexperience to bite you in the arse, the first time I ever encountered lift off over steer I was doing about 80mph and ended up bouncing off hedge rows on both sides of the road multiple times while trying to keep control. This was on a nice warm summers day

Would I of still of been driving like that had I of had some form of car control course? Without a doubt, but at least I would of known what to expect and what to do when it did happen

As for increased costs, just scrap the waste of time theory test, at least it would be being replaced with something that would actually come in handy when they are on the road

the theory test is there to ensure the new driver has at least some knowledge about about the highway code and road signs, the hazard perception part is bollocks and does no part in increasing road safety

the practical test does need improving with more emphasis on car control rather than box ticking.

The theory test is bollocks, the only revision I did for it was to 'cram' two days before, passed it with 35/35 and two days later couldn't remember or care about most of it as like most of the test its pretty much irrelevant once you start driving properly. Before the theory they just used to ask you questions while on your test, for all the good it does they might as well just scrap it and bring the questions back.

I think a lot of this all boils down to the country as a whole having a lack of responsibly, too few adults have it these days and even less pass it on to their kids. its like its easier to walk around not giving a shit and then pass the blame on to someone else when your lack of giving a shit leads to a fuck up. I think people these days just think they can pack their kids off to school and they will be taught all they need to know, but there's some shit schools can't teach. If we are not careful we'll end up being like the French

Edited 18 December, 201213 yr by Mclovin

Or worse still, the Americans.

My problem with voluntary tuition mainly compromises of the mindless rush job involved.

Nobody cares about learning anything, they just wanna scrape through the test as quick as possible. By educating people not only how to drive, but also to be a pedestrian, and a first raider, before they're in any hurry to be, then I think far more will sink in.

The theory test is bollocks, the only revision I did for it was to 'cram' two days before, passed it with 35/35 and two days later couldn't remember or care about most of it as like most of the test its pretty much irrelevant once you start driving properly. Before the theory they just used to ask you questions while on your test, for all the good it does they might as well just scrap it and bring the questions back.

I think a lot of this all boils down to the country as a whole having a lack of responsibly, too few adults have it these days and even less pass it on to their kids. its like its easier to walk around not giving a shit and then pass the blame on to someone else when your lack of giving a shit leads to a fuck up. I think people these days just think they can pack their kids off to school and they will be taught all they need to know, but there's some shit schools can't teach. If we are not careful we'll end up being like the French

I agree with the majority of this, but shit schools that can't teach? It shouldn't be the responsibility of teachers to 'teach' responsibility, thats a parent's job. Too many parents think it's our job to educate in all areas of life, but thats impossible, or even diserable. Can you imagine the headlines if schools were actually given that mandate? I can just see the Mail reporting it as 'Schools brainwash students' and such rubbish. Although it seems people believe it is our responsibility, no one wants to actually admit passing that on, giving them plenty of ammo for when it goes wrong. Plus 6 hours in school is not enough time to change attitudes kids are exposed to when at home.

I'm not a subscriber to religion, and see it as a system of control or guidance for those who lack the self will to navigate their own lives. However I do subscribe to Christian beliefs and morals, but I don't think too many others do. I do believe a lack of religius following has contributed to the attitudes of some. Add to this our lack of 'struggle' (this is the longest period of peacetime in our history) and it's easy to see why we have grown so selfish as a nation. What we need is a good religious crusade!

When I took my test (Feb 2012) they took the pee to be honest. I booked a test for beginning of Feb at 8am, I got there and they cancelled it saying it was too icy, although my instructor had taken me out for an hour before hand and I had no issues. My bug bear is, why wouldn't they let me drive in the conditions? When you have passed your test you are going to face all kinds of weather conditions. And last week I had to drive in the snow for the first time on my own as I had work, I didn't have a clue, luckily I had a bit of a crash course with my other half, but it was scary.

I passed first time with one minor, I'm 23, so I'm not one of these 17yr olds who will dick around with their mates up and down back roads, but where does this proposal start? Is it singling out young drivers or new drivers of all ages? Statistics show less and less people are starting to drive, this is going to put people off even more!!

EDIT... I also learned to drive AFTER I passed my test. The test is bollocks

Edited 18 December, 201213 yr by HenryRoger

The theory test is bollocks, the only revision I did for it was to 'cram' two days before, passed it with 35/35 and two days later couldn't remember or care about most of it as like most of the test its pretty much irrelevant once you start driving properly. Before the theory they just used to ask you questions while on your test, for all the good it does they might as well just scrap it and bring the questions back.

I think a lot of this all boils down to the country as a whole having a lack of responsibly, too few adults have it these days and even less pass it on to their kids. its like its easier to walk around not giving a shit and then pass the blame on to someone else when your lack of giving a shit leads to a fuck up. I think people these days just think they can pack their kids off to school and they will be taught all they need to know, but there's some shit schools can't teach. If we are not careful we'll end up being like the French

I agree with the majority of this, but shit schools that can't teach? It shouldn't be the responsibility of teachers to 'teach' responsibility, thats a parent's job. Too many parents think it's our job to educate in all areas of life, but thats impossible, or even diserable. Can you imagine the headlines if schools were actually given that mandate? I can just see the Mail reporting it as 'Schools brainwash students' and such rubbish. Although it seems people believe it is our responsibility, no one wants to actually admit passing that on, giving them plenty of ammo for when it goes wrong. Plus 6 hours in school is not enough time to change attitudes kids are exposed to when at home.

I'm not a subscriber to religion, and see it as a system of control or guidance for those who lack the self will to navigate their own lives. However I do subscribe to Christian beliefs and morals, but I don't think too many others do. I do believe a lack of religius following has contributed to the attitudes of some. Add to this our lack of 'struggle' (this is the longest period of peacetime in our history) and it's easy to see why we have grown so selfish as a nation. What we need is a good religious crusade!

Si read that sentence again, just nice and slowly and let it sink in this time

religion just seems like an excuse to hate other people to me. They keep telling us that religion is all about forgiveness tolerance and understanding but just look at how they act in the American bible belt, they are only one step away from stoning gays in the streets and that's what the Muslims actually do in their home land

We do need to bring back old skool morals or something tho and move away from this culture of blaming everyone but ourselves

Edited 18 December, 201213 yr by Mclovin

Sorry Guy I thought that was a strange thing for you to say, but some people would have stuff like that taught in schools

Religion can be used as a means of control, which is a major problem for me. Extremism in any form is bad, be it religious or aetheist. It's all out of proportion and irrational.

Bring back morals, I agree with you. But how do you do that? Fear of God used to be enough for some, but less so now. Consumerism and capitalism haven't helped, regardless of the other benefits they bring

Edited 18 December, 201213 yr by prankstar2003

I would say instilling a good work ethic into kids from an early age would be a good start, try and remove this notion of entitlement that too many people seem to have. People shouldn't be scared into living a decent life, the system only truly works if they want to work and provide for themselves and their families. If someone works hard for something and has pride in themselves for doing it I think there would be less chance of them risking going out and fucking it all up by acting like a idiot. Or that could just be wishful thinking?

The country has definitely lost its moral ground tho, we used to be a nation of grafters, but now a large percentage of the population would rather sit around on their arses watching Jeremy Kyle while the rest goes out and earns the money to pay for them to do so

I think the system is a joke being at sixthform alot of my friends are now passing...

look out.

no seriously...

alot of them are female and not to add tot the stereotype but they dont have a clue. but one of them is a good driver although she drives a ford :(

one of them doesnt even know how to do a hill start and has never had too which is by far a necessity where we live.

alot of them dont have a clue how to react if something was to go wrong (as they found out with a smashed up bumper)

they dont have a clue about the ordinary parts of a car that need to be regularly checked and they CANNOT PARK!

watched this one girl for about 10 minutes trying to and she bumped the car infront a good few times before getting it in!

some of the stories they tell me when they have been in near accidents or problems makes me want to cry. but it isnt just the girls because i know lads that just rag around wheel spinning and fooking around either showing off or trying to hard!

i think the driving test are not full enough. i passed over a week end 8-10 hours of driving and some hours with my dad out in polo and to be honest my driving instructor even said that its hit or miss weather i pass. i did pass but i do have alot of prior driving experience off roading etc..

i think that you should be made to do pass plus as normal lessons dont encompass motorways WHICH IS RIDICULOUS!

moreover i think the test should be more of a control test rather than if you can pretend to look in some mirrors, do a 3pt turn and not hit a curb.

Just my thoughts?!

Sam

Excuse me!! I am female, recently passed, and I live in a costal town with horrendous on street parking. I can fit my car in a gap that's 6 inches bigger than my car. I also work on my cars myself. I am capable of doing service work myself, and I also have a great understanding for the feel of my car, and when something is about to break. I also know how to react to it, what parts to order and how to fit them.

Please do not stereotype!!

Also note... womens insurance quotes have gone up because they have to be on par with men, apparently it's sexist?!

I think the system is a joke being at sixthform alot of my friends are now passing...

look out.

no seriously...

alot of them are female and not to add tot the stereotype but they dont have a clue. but one of them is a good driver although she drives a ford :(

one of them doesnt even know how to do a hill start and has never had too which is by far a necessity where we live.

alot of them dont have a clue how to react if something was to go wrong (as they found out with a smashed up bumper)

they dont have a clue about the ordinary parts of a car that need to be regularly checked and they CANNOT PARK!

watched this one girl for about 10 minutes trying to and she bumped the car infront a good few times before getting it in!

some of the stories they tell me when they have been in near accidents or problems makes me want to cry. but it isnt just the girls because i know lads that just rag around wheel spinning and fooking around either showing off or trying to hard!

i think the driving test are not full enough. i passed over a week end 8-10 hours of driving and some hours with my dad out in polo and to be honest my driving instructor even said that its hit or miss weather i pass. i did pass but i do have alot of prior driving experience off roading etc..

i think that you should be made to do pass plus as normal lessons dont encompass motorways WHICH IS RIDICULOUS!

moreover i think the test should be more of a control test rather than if you can pretend to look in some mirrors, do a 3pt turn and not hit a curb.

Just my thoughts?!

Sam

Excuse me!! I am female, recently passed, and I live in a costal town with horrendous on street parking. I can fit my car in a gap that's 6 inches bigger than my car. I also work on my cars myself. I am capable of doing service work myself, and I also have a great understanding for the feel of my car, and when something is about to break. I also know how to react to it, what parts to order and how to fit them.

Please do not stereotype!!

Also note... womens insurance quotes have gone up because they have to be on par with men, apparently it's sexist?!

i did put not to add to the stereotype and i seriously know lots of females that are better drivers than me probably! I'm just saying in my instance my friends cant park and arnt very goo drivers not becuase the are female but becuase of the system, thats the message i was trying to put across!

didnt mean to offend!

I can fit my car in a gap that's 6 inches bigger than my car.

You do realise that the only way that would even possibly be physically possible would be to hand break in at speed and pin point accuracy?

I can fit my car in a gap that's 6 inches bigger than my car.

You do realise that the only way that would even possibly be physically possible would be to hand break in at speed and pin point accuracy?

You knew what I was getting at!! I have no point of reference for 6 inches

Nor me unfortunately

I can fit my car in a gap that's 6 inches bigger than my car.

You do realise that the only way that would even possibly be physically possible would be to hand break in at speed and pin point accuracy?

You knew what I was getting at!! I have no point of reference for 6 inches

Well i tend to consider 8inches the height of the monitor you're looking at. But then i'm quite conservative with figures..

Exhibit A1

Exhibit A2

It took me ages to insure a car after i passed. So obviously once insured, i felt i had purchased a right to drive like a tit. It lasted all of about 3 weeks. I span the car up an embankment off a roundabout in the wet, rotated about 540 ish degrees. I ended up about 50 yards away from where i started facing the wrong way. I was ridiculously lucky not to have hit anything. I thoroughly shat myself up. I dont think there wouldnt have been anything that could have had the same impact on me. No amount of tuition or guidlines could have prepared me, i think the only way a lot of people will learn is by making mistakes.

^^ An accident does sort you out.

Getting education on road and vehicle design, development and research gives you a bit more respect for it all, but nothing makes you respect the road more than having a good messy accident - unfortunately it often fucks people up for a long time, usually innocents.

Also, it took me a long time to realize that when you're on the road, you're surrounded by kids. When i'm on foot i tend to be more careful around them, but when they're hidden in rolling coffins you just can't see them.

Exactly, one of the reasons I'm thankful it was big enough for me to empty my bowels into the footwell, but not big enough to result in points, fines, jail, conscience.

I'm not gonna deny i still drive like a nice person at times, but its a case of assessing the risk. Time and a place and all that.

I can fit my car in a gap that's 6 inches bigger than my car.

You do realise that the only way that would even possibly be physically possible would be to hand break in at speed and pin point accuracy?

You knew what I was getting at!! I have no point of reference for 6 inches

Well i tend to consider 8inches the height of the monitor you're looking at. But then i'm quite conservative with figures..

Exhibit A1

Exhibit A2

Surely a HTC phone isn't 8inches?! I really want to learn to handbrake turn park, my street isn't wide enough :( I also want Russ Swift to teach me!!

Not sure my insurance would be happy though