Hello,

So I received a fine yesterday for my xenon headlights. The cop said that they were illegal due to me just fitting HID bulbs. I told him this wasn't the case and that the OEM Xenon headlights have been fitted. He had to call his colleague to check the markings on the top of the headlight, which identified them as being the proper xenon lights.

Even then, he said they were wrong. Then went on to say that the car needed a self-levelling system and washers. He showed me the legislation that said that "some expensive cars" have a self levelling system. Some. That's pretty generic.

After a while, he took my details and gave me the fine.

Being annoyed, I'm pretty sure this is SUCH a grey area in the law, so came home to Google it. Found that from the MOT handbook:

Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.

Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.

Headlamp washers may work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dipped beam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.

HID lamps may be identified by:

. taking a few seconds to reach full intensity

. having a bluish tinge to the light

. having an igniter module/inverter behind the headlamp

. having ‘DCR’ marked on the headlamp lens.

HID headlamps use high voltage and extra care should be taken when inspecting these items.

This is so generic it's unreal! I can appeal it, obviously, but means going through the courts, and for £30, I don't know if it's worth it.

Just annoyed, that's all. I understand that if they're fitted they have to work. But if they don't exist, they CAN'T be checked.

Thoughts?

Sounds like you picked up a jobsworth but road law and MOT legal are 2 different things

Self levelling is not tested as there is no means to test them on roadside or mot station. Washers should be fitted but I know some cars dont have them.

Your lights are in units designed for xenon light so unless it was causing serious scatter or too blue he was just out to upset you.

I know this!

Just popped down to the local cop shop to ask some questions and the guy didn't know - nor did the traffic that he phoned to ask too.

I got fined for "Unauthorised Lamps Fitted". I think he just wanted a reason and didn't believe it. £30 quid is nothing but he obviously has a quota to fill and used me as an easy target.

Apparently it's under Reg 20 of the "Road Vehicles Lighting Regs (1989)", so I'm gonna have a read over that and see if I can find something concrete.

I don't understand how Road law and MOT legal can be different. How can VOSA say one thing but the law be different.

I hate this country.

The only thing in those reg's I could see he could possibly be referring to was the bit about "Dazzling" oncomming vehicles???

This is taken from a newsletter to VOSA testers Oct 2012

Do HID headlamps require washers / self levellers?

Headlamp washing and levelling systems are a legal requirement for high intensity discharge (HID) lamps with a luminous intensity exceeding 2,000 lumens. But unless the luminous intensity is marked on the lamp, a tester won’t be able to tell if these systems are needed.

So, they can only be rejected if they are fitted and are inoperative or obviously defective. If they are missing and you believe they should be fitted, then pass and advise

.

Its stupid. the documentation against HID's have been written by people who really dont know what there on about. Its a grey area because they tar the whole thing with the same brush, not realising that there are ways to fit them properly.

Did the police officer that stopped you have a luminosity sensor?

My favorite section is :-

having a bluish tinge to the light

I've got HIDs, cant say I have a bluish tinge.

I know, it's a joke. Far enough, they're 6k, so white close up, but more of an ice blue.

But, according to my mates dad - who's an ex traffic, who spent the entire night trying to prove I'm right - the VOSA and MOT regs are NOT the same as the law. And the law comes first.

So he's trying to prove that washers and self-levellers are mandatory.

Even then - I got charged for Unauthorised Lights - ie, the lights DON'T have a E98 marking, which they DO!

So, think I might contest.

So, the LAW regarding the headlight and cleaning details:

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/m...regs/r48r6e.pdf

Para 6.2.9:

Dipped-beam headlamps with a light source or LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam and having a total objective luminous flux which

exceeds 2,000 lumen shall only be installed in conjunction with the installation of headlamp cleaning device(s) according to Regulation No. 45. 10/

With respect to vertical inclination the provisions of paragraph 6.2.6.2.2. above shall not be applied for dipped-beam headlamps:

(a) With LED module(s) producing the principal dipped beam; or

(b) With a light source producing the principal dipped beam and having an objective luminous flux which exceeds 2,000 lumen.

Only dipped-beam headlamps according to Regulations Nos. 98 or 112 may be used to produce bend lighting. If bend lighting is produced by a horizontal movement of the whole beam or the kink of the elbow of the cut-off, it shall be activated only if the vehicle is in forward motion; this shall not apply if bend lighting is produced for a right turn in right hand traffic (left turn in left hand traffic).

Quote.

So, the LAW states that if the headlamp has a luminous output of more than 2000, then it needs a washer. If not, it doesn't.

Now, how do I prove this..

Is'nt the whole purpose of the MOT/VOSA testing to ensure the vehicle conforms "at the time of the test" to the relevant laws regarding the contruction & use regulations including the relevant sections of the lighting regs??? and that excerpt from the newsletter to VOSA/MOT testers would tend to indicate that that although headlight washers and autoself-levelling is a requirement if the light output exceeds 2000 Lumens, it's not a reason to fail, so must be within the law??

Unless they can prove at the time you were stopped, your lights were putting out more than 2000 Lumens, and the copper did'nt have a light meter, I can't see how they can procceed with any prosecution.

Exactly!

I'm gonna start carrying around this paperwork!

This is a note to other people too, regarding the laws on HID's and projector headlights.

Not too sure about England but in Northern Ireland the new mot laws state that all cars with xenon headlights have to have the washers and self levelling. This means the hid kits as well. It's a caner like

Retro fitting headlamp washers is easy. have a look at land rover ones on ebay and there is a type to suit most bumper shapes. You then need a anti-syphon valve (dependong on tank position), tank and pump. Wire up a push button and job done.

I'm going to fit my water tank and pump where the carbon canister was so its out of the way.

Self levelling is a bit more problematic but there is a retro fit kit out there. There may be a way to use the original adjusters and use a beam level adjuster sensor from another car and retro fit it.

On the saab the front sensor is on a droplink that bolts through the wishbone, something like this could be adapted but it would be better if it used the rear axle for leveling.

But in my view self levelling lights are slow to react to terrain differences so are not really useful outside a town.

I'm planning to fit Renault Laguna self levellers as they go on the rear axle

I'm pretty sure that the self-levellers on the Polo are on the rear axle - why not use them?

So, back to the point - do I pay the fine, or do I take it to court?! I've never been to court before.. :(

If it were me I'd just pay it... But I can understand why you want/deserve to stand against it. If you lose then you pay courts fees etc

My favorite section is :-

having a bluish tinge to the light

I've got HIDs, cant say I have a bluish tinge.

Thats my favourite section too. My lights have a bluish tinge and they arent HID's . I was all ready to rip into the OP for having aftermarket HID's that are badly adjusted and dazzle, like half the saxo's and clios i see (cant wait till i fit my uprated loom and hella grille to blind those f$*kers). But you actually have used the proper OEM lights. So what you dont have washers, i've seen cars with factory xenons and no washers? The only problem i can see is you dont have self levellers, but the cop didnt know that, i'm betting he didnt crawl under and check! You should just pay it though, no point fighting £30 and incurring a higher cost. I still get dazzled by cars ( especially 4x4's) with HID lights, even if they have self levellers, as they arent quick enough to react to our crappy roads with all the potholes and bumps.

got yellow hids sitting here. thatl fuck em up ha

I know! It took over 20 minutes for the idiot to grasp the fact that the headlights were OEM! He didn't really know his stuff and that annoyed me more. I wasn't some tool that had chucked a set of HID bulbs in. Tried to tell me that the light pattern was scattering even though there was a cutoff on his trouser leg.

Ill pay it I think, but carry the paperwork around with me.

Does sound like a tool of a guy. What you need is to get another traffic officer to come look at the car and get an opinion.

got yellow hids sitting here. thatl fuck em up ha

FIT THEM.

They have a green tint on start up.

Hahaha. Far better for night driving in country lanes. Also picks out 3M reflective battenburg from a long distance.

If you're sure your car is legal, then contest it. But if you've retro-fitted OEM HIDs but haven't fitted the headlamp washers that come with them; then I'd pay the fine.

Is'nt the whole purpose of the MOT/VOSA testing to ensure the vehicle conforms "at the time of the test" to the relevant laws regarding the contruction & use regulations including the relevant sections of the lighting regs???

The MoT doesn't (and cannot) check every aspect of a vehicle's compliance to construction and use. If it did, we'd all be pissed off that our annual MoT was £500 instead of £50 to cover the additional cost of all the kit each test station would have to carry - and we'd probably have to go without our car for a couple of days too!

VOSA want to keep the time, complexity and cost of doing an MoT as low as possible, so they only go for the simple and straightforward tests to check the basics. I've recently been involved in discussing potential MoT requirements for the high voltage (HV) electrics of a hybrid or electric vehicle with VOSA, and they're reluctant to spend any additional money on specialist kit or training that'd enable MoT garages to thoroughly check the HV safety of an EV. Instead it looks likely that there'll be an amendment to the regs for a visual inspection of any HV cables on show - and that'll be it!

As far as laws go a lot of cars on here are probably "illegal"

I can understand why you'd want to protest it Adam, but it's also only £30.

Annoying because it's like admitting you're in the wrong - but they could then ask how legal your carbs are on your car lol.

if you start being a funny c*nt with them - they will target you for whatever they can.....fact! you will only be making your own life harder!

For what it's worth I'd just pay the 30 quid and be done with it.

Hids are quite a grey area IMO, as stated above washers depend on the output for example some new beetles have hids but no washers, apperently they do not get hot enough for dirt and grime to stick to the lense so they are not needed.

if you start being a funny c*nt with them - they will target you for whatever they can.....fact! you will only be making your own life harder!

I know, I wasn't being funny with them though. They pulled me and without even saying hi, told me to pop the bonnet so they could inspect the lights and straight away told me they were illegal.

I'm always decent and polite with them - I've never had a problem because I believe it's because I've been well spoken and nice. But this time was different.

Didn't question the brakes, or the suspension, or the engine swap, just the fact that my lights were potentially illegal - that's what annoyed me more.

I'll just pay it and be done, pftttt.

I'm pretty sure that the self-levellers on the Polo are on the rear axle - why not use them?

So, back to the point - do I pay the fine, or do I take it to court?! I've never been to court before.. :(

If it were me I'd just pay it... But I can understand why you want/deserve to stand against it. If you lose then you pay courts fees etc

if you start being a funny c*nt with them - they will target you for whatever they can.....fact! you will only be making your own life harder!

The quotes above are the reason why innocent drivers are being targetted for doing nothing wrong when it comes to 'grey' areas in the law.

If you don't contest it and just pay the fine you are basically saying you a guilty of commiting what ever pissy little crime they are accusing you of.

Contest it and try and take it to court, it won't even get that far...you'll exchange a couple of letters and the fine will be dropped.

Did you get a note of the Police officers shoulder numbers? They are always complaining about the general public wasting their time, but here is an example of them wasting their own time and yours!

See, it's not like I was even being cocky with them. Before I could even say hi they told me to pop the bonnet.

Usually there's a 30 second personality assessment where they judge you, but no, not this time. Was having a nice time chatting away to them - didn't even know where it was going until BAM! You're getting fined, get in the back of the car..

I don't want to risk it though, I'll end up loosing and having to pay a bigger fee. They've charged me for Unauthorised Lamps Fitted though - which IMO, means that I've fitted Ka headlamps to the Polo. But we know that's not the case.

Anyway, I'm gonna carry the MOT laws around with me from now on, and show that instead.