I'm going to try and get as much power out of my 1.4 afh without boost, so if any of you could point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated :-D

Has anyone had there afh re-bored, and if so to what cc?

And what sort of gains would that give in bhp terms?

Or would it be more beneficial and cheaper to swap the 1.4 with 1.6 internals?

If so is this complicated to do? And could this then be rebored closer to a 1.7 (or is this way to ambitious)

Iv'e been told a professional port and polish, done properly, could give gains of between 20 to 30 bhp, couple that with re profiled cams, vernier pulleys, lightened flywheel, (I know the lightened fly does not add bhp) and with the afh run on throttle boddies.

Does anyone have any idea what sort of power a set up like this could possibly achieve???

Cheers

I think 200hp is achievable as a 1.6, but would need to be decently setup - but do you want peak power or to be able to drive it?

I think 200hp is achievable as a 1.6, but would need to be decently setup - but do you want peak power or to be able to drive it?

Thanks Nick, I thought you'd be the first to reply :-D

I wanna be able to drive it but have as much power there when needed.

With an over bore you would need custom pistons, much cheaper and easier to get the extra cc by using 1.6 crank and rods

Isn't dogwoods afh still a 1.4 and putting out over 200 bhp? Or am I getting confused?

I know there was an AFH which had been overbored to like 1401from 1390, so pistons must be available.

Could build cammed high comp 1.6 and a bit with a worked head on ITBs? Pure screamer

Ie use over sized AFH pistons AFH block avy rods/crank

Ie use over sized AFH pistons AFH block avy rods/crank

What do you mean by oversized AFH pistons?

I'm a little Nieve when it comes to swapping parts from one engine to another to gain more power, so all you need do is swap the the 1.6 internals rods/crank and 1.6 pistons into the AFH to then make it a 1.6, is it as simple as that or is there more to it?

To answer my original question regarding individual gains, would below be about right?

1.4 AFH on ITBs approx 130 bhp?

Professionally flowed head approx 20 bhp?

Cams approx 20 bhp?

Would vernier pullys help to fine tune to add more power, if so how much?

Straight through stainless system 10 bhp?

Would the above be achievable using that setup, thats approx 180 bhp?

Edited 14 April, 201313 yr by tominator

I'd say 20hp gain is a lot to ask, especially as the AFH heads flow well anyway.

You can basically change just the crank and rods in an AFH to "stroke" it, basically make the piston travel further up and down the cylinder = more displacement, so 1.6 not a 1.4. If you use AFH pistons you'll have around a 12.3:1 compression ratio.

Personally I'm skeptical of going for big peak power numbers via hefty cams as I think it will ruin it through the range and just need to be screamed everywhere

With an over bore you would need custom pistons, much cheaper and easier to get the extra cc by using 1.6 crank and rods

Isn't dogwoods afh still a 1.4 and putting out over 200 bhp? Or am I getting confused?

Fairly sure that his is a 1.6 AFH to break the 200bhp barrier. Need fairly filthy cams to achieve that too I'd imagine.

isnt the Sorg motorsport AFH 340bhp it's turbo now but I'm sure it was a high power N/A before

oversized pistons are hard to come by because they are generally custom but maybe vw can get OE oversized pistons i highly doubt it though

which means forged oversized pistons and if your going to that extent you may aswell do the rods and boost it tbh as you have already got rid of the main weaknesses in boosting an AFH

Edited 15 April, 201313 yr by StinkyPete

Yeah. Ideally you'd want strong internals puttin them through that much stress NA anyway.

I know a few people in the Motorsport scene and it's been mentioned on more than one occasion that they try using peakier cams and end up going back to milder/stock as the gains top end arnt as good as the loss of drivability or low-mid range.

Do you want the car that's fast for you - or just to have a big number to show off to people as such?

You could spend say £4-5000 building a strong setup AFH to achieve 200hp, or just run a PY engine with a turbo for a lot less ?

afh cams are lairy as standard tbf ..

Could a pully not be used to change the power curve on standard cams ?

You wouldn't need to spend 4-5k to get an afh to 200bhp definately not

Forged/custom pistons and rods - cost? £800-1000?

Decent 4-2-1 mani - cost?

Having a head properly rebuilt and flowed - £3-600

Decent cam set + springs & lifters - £1000ish

ITB setup, management + fuel pump/injectors/mapping - £1000+

General rebuild parts, bearings/fixings/oil pimp etc - 3-500?

Vernier pulleys - £150ish for a pair

Lightening + balancing etc - £2-300?

It soon adds up if you're going to town, this is based on having work done - not knowing a mate who will do that cheap. If I was going that extreme on an engine id certainly be paying reputable companies to do things like the head, not someone with a dremel and a marker pen.

haha .. bigger ports = more poweerrrrr.. NO

Yes you could use bike ITBs and map yourself etc etc, but even the difference between brands of ITBs for "car" engines seem to vary in their design, let alone bike ones, and for that kind of setup id imagine a fair amount of thought would need to be considered for everything like that to get it at its optimum

Why do you need the head flowed

Why do you need the cams etc

Answer: you dont

Lightening and balancing can be done sub £200

Don't forget I've done most of this already I'm not doing it cheap but I don't see the need to go to town on alot of it

Yes I have done 90 percent of it myself but doesn't mean I don't know the prices and what actually needs doing

And Guy has practically done a boost ready afh for less than 1k < This refers to Stronger internals and management and ITBs in that cost (hope that makes certain people HAPPY)

Edited 15 April, 201313 yr by StinkyPete

I was talking normally aspirated as per OP.

Yeah so what I said still applies IE stronger internals, management and ITB's

The afh head in standard form is the best flowing short block head anyway

And sorting out the internals can be done for less than £200 using OE parts from other engines with modification

And as Jamie said the cams are lairy as standard you'll just be pushin power up the rev range

Verniers would be best with standard cams to alter the power bands

And I could sort them cheaper than £150 and tbh I'm sure Higgo could for his dad too

I have material sat here that could be used

All I'm saying is you don't need money to go balls out

You need to know what your doing and not be a monkey with more money than sense

I would rather see a car that's had the owner graft on it and do it on the cheap being resourceful

Than a credit card car or rich mans car

Edited 15 April, 201313 yr by StinkyPete

^^^ That's true to some extent but with certain things it needs financial investment.

Take throttle bodies and standalone fuel for example. A decent ECU and wiring harness is around £600-800 then add in mappable ignition it's over a grand. Then a set of 40mm Jenveys are another grand.

I'm all for making things and doing as much as possible by yourself, but sometimes it just isn't possible.

200hp on standard cams?

Factor in all your bearings, new oil pump, water pump, cambelt kit etc etc, you'd likely want ARP rod bolts and forged rods and pistons, I know you can do things cheaper and doing the work on yourself, but you still have to consider the fact people have cammed and carb'd a 1.6 only making mid 150's, finding another 50hp isn't going to be a case of tweaking the cam timing on a home made pulley.

The head might flow WELL but doesn't mean it can't be improved, I'm pretty sure the likes of Sorg Motorsport didn't just bang bike ITBs on off eBay and tweak the cam timing

Don't get me wrong £4-5k is being a bit loose on money, but there's lots of little bits and bobs which add up, I'm talking for just buying stuff and having work done.

Not making stuff yourself, or buying cheap shit off eBay

Well use bike bodies like me as they have cost me £45 and I've made all the other bits to suit

But you could easily get a decent machine shop to do these bits and it won't cost you anywhere near the same as Jenveys

Ecu's if your paying £600-800 will do both injection and ignition so no need for an ecu each

Yes this is the expensive bit but its still affordable if you don't go OTT on the rest

Or get Megasquirt for about £300 that still does both

I agree you can't do everything yourself and I haven't as I've already said and I know alot of people can't do as much as I have done but I still know the costs involved if I had to of pay for it as I work in a machine shop and have people coming in wanting similar jobs doing

What I'm saying is financial investment should be put in the right places like the ECU but not every part of the build needs it like some people seem to think

I'm aiming for one of the biggest power AFH's on here and have done alot of research to see where I can get away with going cheap (being resourceful) and where I can't and there's some places I could of gone cheap but haven't for my own peace of mind e.g. Forged rods 1.8 20vt when I could have used standard 1.8 20vt rods

Yes the head can be made better flowing but from what I've seen the cost far outweighs the benefits from it

you could do it yourself with some research and the cost would be minimum compared to paying someone

I reckon a 1.6 AFH could hit 200 N/A on standard cams

Just move the focus elsewhere

I know all the little bits add up but 4-5k is being stupidly loose on money

My pulleys aren't home made either thanks they are machined properly using the correct machines

Edited 15 April, 201313 yr by StinkyPete

£1k for 200bhp from a n/a AFH... dream on, valvetrain modifications alone would be over £1k.

Speak to Nick Wilson (Dogwood) about how much it cost to get a genuine 200bhp+ from an AFH with reliability.

Sorg's 340bhp AFH is turbo'd.

StinkyPete- your engine hasn't turned currently, so it's 0bhp - preach all you want about doing things on the cheap, once you've done it and it's proven happy days, until then it's internet fact.

When did I say 1k for 200bhp Yoof

Oh hold on I DIDNT

No need to be a C*UNT

I wasn't preaching and what are you trying to say I'm just copying and modifying to suit my needs things that have already been proven to work

Edited 15 April, 201313 yr by StinkyPete