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Electronic ignition swap


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joacomendez17

Hi, my name is Joaquin. i´m from Uruguay and i have an mk2 Golf with 1300cc(HK) engine.
I´ve a problem with my distributor, and i´m plannig to change it to electronic ignition.
My question is if someone have tried with a Golf 16V distributor? This one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Jetta-distributor-POWERSPARK-Jetta-MKII-1-8-16v-/130533056467?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item1e64605fd3&vxp=mtr#ht_4839wt_1118

Bosch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/W0133-1600112-BOS-Bosch-Remanufactured-Ignition-Distributor-/310867017959?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AGolf&hash=item48611e40e7&vxp=mtr#ht_3651wt_1120

It seems to be really similar but i dont know if fits in the cylinder head.
Please any information is welcome. Thanks!!!

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  • 4 months later...
joacomendez17

Hi everybody! I made the swap for electronic ignition but i have a problem. I must pu tThe ignition advance at top and also the engine fail. I understand that this dizzy was from an injection car, so the advance is fixed, and originally the advance in my dizzy is mechanichal variable. How do you handle with this problem? I´m omitting something??

I need some help!

Sorry for my english! Thanks!!!!!

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dvderlm

Electronic ignition varies timing and dwell automatically. Feedback signal from the Hall sender in distributor tells the mini-ECU the camshaft position and RPM.

Do you have 3-way plug connected to Hall sender socket on the distributor?

Do you have a TSZ-H ignition amp and its 5-way(?) connector with a good earth and coil connection?

All clean contacts, well earthed?

Ignition leads in correct order?

Vacuum pipe to carburettor has no holes and is blocked off to not weaken mixture

(there's no vacuum advance capsule on the KR)?

Should not need the ballast resistor to coil with TSZ-H which drops voltage to coil once engine started.

Or instead of TSZ-H use the Dignition and loom from a GK engine which does have 2D mapped vacuum advance from carb on inlet manifold.

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steveo3002

a 16v distributer in good working condition is worth ok money , would it not make sense to sell that and get the proper polo one with vac advance that has a suitable ign advance for those engines?

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joacomendez17

I´ve 3-way plug conected to a Bosch module(7 pin) and i think everything is correct connected.

What´s a TSZ-H ignition amp and its 5-way(?) ??

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dvderlm

TSZ-H = 'TranSistor Zundanlage mit Hallgeber' = your Bosch module.

It is 7 pin. I could not remember, and guessed 5.

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dvderlm

With engine at Top Dead Centre does the rotor arm point to number 1 cylinder spark lead?

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joacomendez17

With engine at Top Dead Centre does the rotor arm point to number 1 cylinder spark lead?

Yes, and all marks of distribution are ok

My answer is: Do i need an ECU? My car is from 1985 and doesn´t have one.

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dvderlm

No, the Bosch 7-pin is an ignition-only ECU.

Have you checked the coil is good?

Ok, just found from Etzold's "VW Polo 9/81 to 8/94 So wird's gemacht" (page 199) that coils for points have different primary resistance.

1.9 +or- 0.2 ohms,

But the green sticker or grey sticker coils are much lower resistance

0.65 +or- 1.5 ohms (green), and 0.7 +or- 0.1 ohms (grey)

Wonder if that is the problem?

TSZ-H has different coil

VW part 211 905 115 D

eg

http://www.mecatechnic.com/zoom.asp?code0_ref=GO1&produit_ref=GC32002&langue=GB

Edited by dvderlm
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joacomendez17

No, the Bosch 7-pin is an ignition-only ECU.

Have you checked the coil is good?

Ok, just found from Etzold's "VW Polo 9/81 to 8/94 So wird's gemacht" (page 199) that coils for points have different primary resistance.

1.9 +or- 0.2 ohms,

But the green sticker or grey sticker coils are much lower resistance

0.65 +or- 1.5 ohms (green), and 0.7 +or- 0.1 ohms (grey)

Wonder if that is the problem?

I'm using a Bosch(red sticker) for electronic ignition. I'm going to try with another one.

But, are you sure that my distributor which is from an iyection car is ok for me( carb car)?? thank you very much

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dvderlm

Yes, the engine sucks fuel and air mixture through carburettor.

The electronic ignition sparks the mixture.

I had a 1987 Golf Mk2 EZ engine which used TSZ-H ignition and a Pierburg 2e2 carburettor as standard.

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joacomendez17

This is my ignition configuration

elect003.jpgelect001.jpgelect004.jpg

Ielect002.jpg

I´m ussing a 7 pin ignition module, Bosch 0237521046 distributor( KR engine??) with static trigger. The coil is Bosch(red sticker) for electronic ignition.

What I'm doing wrong?

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dvderlm

None of your cable colours match what I'd expect from looking at the wiring diagram for a 1986 Polo 1.3.

I'd expect the Hall sender to have 3 x 0.5mm wires.

  1. brown/white ----> BOSCH TSZ-H 3
  2. green /white----->BOSCH TSZ-H 6
  3. red/black ------> BOSCH TSZ-H 5

I'd expect the BOSCH TSZ-H to have 3x1.5mm wires

  1. green ----> Coil 1
  2. black ----> earth
  3. -- (as above)
  4. black ---> Coil 15
  5. --(as above)
  6. --(as above)
  7. not connected

To cjeck the TSZ-H works:

With Hall sender unplugged and ignition first turned on low tension coil voltage should be 2volts then drop to 0volts in 2 seconds.

If not, TSZ-H or wiring is faulty.

Then connect a wire from centre of Hall sender plug to Earth, low tension coil should again rise to 2 volts.

(according to Haynes Polo 1982-1988 Chapter 12 supplement page 212).

To check the Hall sender works:

As the engine is rotated by hand voltage across green/white and brown/white should alternate from 0v-2v as Hall sender

detects position change.(remove king lead from distributor and earth it).

With all plugged in do you see any spark from a plug?

Perhaps the distributor needs a small rotation clockwise (there's no scribed line on the distributor - there is on the mount).

Are you using a rotor arm with 1Kilohm resistance?

600ohms to 1400ohms is okay.

Link to picture of wiring

Edited by dvderlm
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  • 2 years later...

Hello, this is a great forum indeed, and I am new here. I need technical help please. I have a 1.3L HK engine on my Jetta Mk1, it has been converted to electronic ignition by previous owner using a Ducelier distributor, now I have problems with this one and want to replace it with VW ignition distributor (better fitting maybe). On the internet I have made a research and noticed that Polo's with GK engines have electronic ingnition, could anyone please provide me with part number of this distributor? Will it fit on the HK head? As I think HK and GK heads are the same (at least they look so). Thank you very much :)

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Hello, I have the same issue as yours, but the difference is that I have electronic distributor ( a Ducellier taken from Peugeot 205) but it is in bad condition and I want to change it with VW/Bosch electronic one. From my little knowledge, I have seen on the internet that Polo's with GK engines (which look very similar to HK's) have factory electronic distributors? Could anyone please reference us to that one? Will this fit on VW HK motor (if the HK and GK are the same)? Greetings :)

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dvderlm

Yes the Gk does. A KR/PL distributor can be used on a GK.

HK has same camshaft style with slot so should work with right ignition amp or ECU.

 

eg a JP Group 121409272 (vag 051905205b or 027905205b). Will need a 052905225c rotor arm with 10.6mm hole.

 

Try seller x-parts on German eBay or

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Distributor-VW-Golf-2-16V-PL-KR-Passat-Corrado-Jetta-Seat-CORDOBA-Ibiza-NEW/182171670442

Edited by dvderlm
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dvderlm, thank you very much for helping, I have been looking for it :) I have read all posts in this thread, and I have same stock motor (HK) and carburetor (Pierburg) as joacomendez17What I am wondering about is the need for an ECU, as the distributor you have referred me to does not have vacuum nor weights advance, so will it be able to work fine at idle and during higher RPM without an ECU? The wiring diagram you have provided earlier in this post is really helpful but does not show an ECU. Could you please provide more detail for making this change, as I need it badly in order to make my car driving a nice experience again :) Thank you very much :)

Edited by Yazan
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dvderlm

Glad to help. You do need something to advance the ignition as the revs rise because the fuel flame explodes at the same rate but the pistons move faster.

 

A 7-wire Bosch style ignition amp (0227 100 224) will perform the advance. It also calculates dwell time so optimal energy is sent to spark plugs from coil without the coil getting too hot.

It does not compensate for engine load or the reduced vacuum of huge carbs. Should be fine for a Pierburg 2e3 though.

 

The Gk has  Bosch Dignition which has an extra sensor for manifold vacuum to compensate for engine load. And a temp sensor so timing begins at ~10deg advance when engine cold then gradually moves to the 2d map

of manifold vacuum versus revs.

 

There are other alternatives. I use an Aldon Amethyst directly with the KR Hall sender in the distributor -because I have open  twin carbs.that have only 4 inHg vacuum at normal road speed while the Pierburg or Weber DMTL and inlet plenum produce >16inHg.   

A Megasquirt or Megajolt or Nodiz are also possible upgrade ECU but usually need a crank mounted trigger wheel with 36 teeth and 1 gap and don't need camshaft driven distributor.

Space is tight to fit a trigger wheel at crank pulley - but not impossible.

 

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dvderlm

Are you sure the problem you have is the distributor and not an airleak at carburettor for example?

If cables and rotor arm are fairly new there's not much to go wrong.

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On 3/9/2017 at 23:45, dvderlm said:

Glad to help. You do need something to advance the ignition as the revs rise because the fuel flame explodes at the same rate but the pistons move faster.

 

Thank you very much, very good information indeed. My Ducellier distributor (taken from Peugeot 205 I guess) has faulty vacuum advance and bad weight advance, and the ignition module is installed at the distributor itself, where it receives all heat coming from the engine. Anyway, I want a new reliable one which would spare me from all the problems and maintenance works. What I understood, is that a (VW 16v distributor + module without ECU) will work fine on my engine and Pierburg 2e3 carburetor. I will get a new one soon, and will be posting about this experience when I try it. Greetings!

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dvderlm

th?id=OIP.4y5uXWngaM0Z_VGDpBA36gEsDw&w=2

Sorry ... 124

 

Also known as Bosch

1 227 010 003
1 227 010 005
1 227 010 006
1 227 010 039 according to Megasquirt manual.

 

Connector is 1 287 013 005.

http://s9.photobucket.com/user/Fanzy123/media/Bosch_124ew.gif.html

 

I think VAG amp part nr 191905351C

Edited by dvderlm
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  • 5 months later...

Hello, I have used information provided here by dvderlm for the installation of electronic distributor with separate ignition module. On my Jetta 1 (HK engine 1.3L) I had a Peugeot 205 distributor. I bought from eBay a new distributor that is used for Golf 2 1.6 and 1.8 double camshaft engines, a new ignition module. I also brought the connecting cable between the dist. and module from a local junk yard (thWP_20170826_23_17_20_Pro.thumb.jpg.a45e4a5fdee6547d95c301b345116082.jpgWP_20170826_23_17_13_Pro.thumb.jpg.e9fd10e36504e3344ca0b3fffa6c8d65.jpge guy said the cable is taken out from a SEAT). The dist. fit and works perfectly, I only had to rasp the metal were the bolts hold on to the engine head a little. Thank you for the great information guys!

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