hi all.

I am wondering if anyone has done this? I have the the loom, the pump the sensors and hubs it's just the pipe work I'm a little unsure on.

Currently on the car it has a union with what looks like 2 pipes coming from the MC and then 4 - 1 going to each wheel. The abs pump has them all going in on one side, on the union they go in from different angles.

Do I have to run all new lines? Or can I bend them to fit?

I was planning on taking the pipe work out of the donor car, but didn't get a chance to. And I doubt a breaker would let me and that's if I find one that hasn't cut them.

Thanks

If you do manage to get it fitted and working, you'll regret it in the snow.

Have you thought about seeing if a Haynes manual will tell you where all the lines go? Or failing that see if VW can tell you?

I didn't think about the snow - I was the only one on the road last time it snowed :s

Tbh I'm in two minds, I want to do it because I have the bits and I think it's rarely done, like the AC which I'm retrofitting.

I asked on here about other brake upgrades but didn't get any answers. I'm going to be using 280mm fronts and Gti discs on the rear.

Would you vote agains abs?

On the pump itself, it has 2 inputs and four outputs. I can figure out where each goes from following them on our 6n2 which has abs, it's just knowing if I can use the existing pipe work

It's not really an issue running all new pipes, as its piece of mind, but it is extra work and cost.

Thanks

Edited 18 November, 201411 yr by dixy

I would vote against ABS but everyone is different. I feel the system on the 6n cuts in too early.

If you are using bigger brakes then the chances of a lockup are reduced. Depends obviously on tyre condition and road surface.

I can +1 what kwij says.

My 6n2 had ABS and it would kick in on the uneven road surface at the end of my road making braking more dangerous if anything. This wasn't even with me braking hard.

Edited 18 November, 201411 yr by vdoubleu

I've had the 6n2 for over 2 years and I don't think I have ever heard the abs pump work... Maybe it's broken?

Am I wrong in saying that the parameters of the controller can be changed? Ie lower the sensitivity?

Has anyone ever used a 6n2 or lupo etc with the traction control? It's listed in elsawin and has a lot more components but effectively the same pump unit, just a different controller. Would that make any difference? Pretty much all my other cars has traction control or stability control etc, but I have never noticed it working until the light flashes ... Is that all it does, because I have other ways of telling if I'm going sideways... Like for instance going sideways :)

Thanks guys

I've been criticised in the past for commenting on ABS (on another forum), so all I'll say is I'm not a fan either for the reasons mentioned above.

However, aside from that, I've got to ask why - I usually stick by the don't build what you can buy mantra, so surely if you need a car that has ABS for whatever reason, I'd say to buy one.

Unless, as per your last post, you're thinking of fitting ABS as a prerequisite to "fitting" traction control...?

It may help answer your question re pipework, if you remember that with ABS, each wheel needs its own feed.

Plus, on models without ABS there is a variable load valve/load sensing valve on the rear brakes, this is not fitted (or desirable) on models with ABS.

Regards

Very good info, thank you. It had come to mind I will have to get underneath and check.

Also, to answer my own questions, the brake lines meet at the passengers side of the bay, then go into a manifold type Union thing then off to the drivers side for the MC because these cars were originally designed as a left hand drive, so the servo and master cylinder would be right where they meet, and according to what I can look up, they use a 4 way MC thus the reason for the union bit.

I could buy a car already with abs, but where's the fun in that?

Also, a little off topic, but has anyone heard of someone using the 305 mm Cupar r discs with the 4 pot brembos caliber on the 6n/2

I have managed to get a set today for free and I love the look of them and it would be awesome if they could be used.

If I could use them then I would go with a 25.4mm MC and leave the ABS

Thanks guys

I could buy a car already with abs, but where's the fun in that?

Fair play! Have to say though, rather you than me... that pipework comment above has melted by brain slightly. lol.

Lol, I have to be different.. That's what I call it, other say I'm difficult :)

I will get a picture up later, but if you look in bay, you will see a pump under the expansion bottle, on a euro car the servo and master cylinder would be in that space so right next to the abs pump. So instead of them making two completely different shells for left and right side steering, they made a one fits all and the pipes stayed in the same place, then they made a modification to put the servo and MC on the left side of the bay.

On a side note, I have been reading up on golf brake upgrades and some have used Porsche 996 4 pots with 305mm discs, now I'm sold on them. Has anyone heard of this on a polo? I really hope it's doable because they would look awesome

Hi Dixy, I'm still pondering doing the A/C too.... I'm currently transferring everything from a very late 6n to a slightly earlier one and I'm also wondering about the ABS....

My donor car has the same ABS ECU/modulator as the 6N2 and the wiring loom seems different to anything found on VAGCAT for example - even the local dealer freaks out when I give him the VIN!

Anyway, as there is one (shortly to be followed be another) almost bare engine bay, I can post or email some pics of the pipework and routing up front including the ABS sensors if that's helpful?

Re the Brembo calipers found this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Audi-PORSCHE-BREMBO-CALIPER-ADAPTERS-5x112-AUDI-A4-B5-PASSAT-B5-996-Calipers-/161476456202?category=72205&buyerid=RiQT1QfV9O26OSi05OlH1Q==&emailtemplateid=84218078&sellerid=FpRekKD1aqAU/M6mYAKopg==&refid=store&ssPageName=ADME:B:SEMK:UK:LISTG

If the total piston cross sectional area of the four pot caliper is greater than the standard ones, you will have a lot of pedal travel unless you increase the master cylinder CSA as well.

Regards

I could post some pics of pipework - except I can't!

Can't insert images, links, code, media, can't upload to a gallery................

Am I being more dense than usual? That last question doesn't actually need an answer

Are you using win Explorer 10 with Win 7? as for some reason it won't allow you to paste the IMG codes, but if you try it with Google Chrome browser then it works OK ??????

Tried 3 different browsers.... no change.

Anyway, Dixy, I can 'mail pics of engine bay pipework if you like. Comparing the two side-by side, you're either going to need to create some pipes, or grab some off an ABS car with the right modulator assembly - I've seen at least 3 different ones!

Muddi canal, that's kind of what I have done, but backwards, the AC came off a 96 car so I had to alter the wiring quite a bit. I have a complete early loom in sections, so if you need any bits or all of it etc, let me know as its in the way :)

I have a 6n without abs and a 6n2 with abs in the driveway just haven't had time to have a proper look at them. If your thinking of doing it, then perhaps you can offer up the pump unit to the existing Union bit and see if they are a million miles off.

I too will be stripping the whole car to pieces in the next few weeks as pretty much every mechanical bit will be changed, the shed is full of bits to go on, so if it will need new pipe work I will have to source it before jumping in.

Caretaker plus, that's good info, I didn't think of that. I imagine it would be greater, as even 4 very small Pistons will be bigger then the small one that's on there now.

forgive my noobness, but is CSA cross sectional area? If so, does that mean a larger master cylinder, in lamens terms? :)

Thanks

Also, muddy camel, the wiring from the 6n2 pump is very simple. The sensors stay the same and follow the same route. There are 9 wires going into the cabin, 5 are not needed, as they are for can bus high and low lines, and 3 that seem to be for navigation. so it leaves you with 4- 1 for the pedal switch, 1 for the diagnositic line, 1 for the dash light and 1 for the fuse in the fuse box.

there are 2 ground wires that go to the main ground point on the chassis leg, and 2 main power wires that go to the battery fuse box, BUT as yours is an early one, it doesn't have the battery distribution plate and is all wired through the fuse box. So will no doubt have a relay to switch power to the abs pump.

It's an option to fit the distribution plate and then run the AC and abs wires as a standalone unit and leave the rest as is.

I will have a look through elsawin for the early diagrams if there available.

Had a look on eBay and found a few pump units for the earlier 6n, it's different in design and has the input from the MC at the top near the motor, and the four outputs facing up all in one line. This makes a little more sense and looks like it may be doable by bending the pipes a little. I will have to get some pics of the pipe work up, as in my head it looks one way, but in reality it's another.

Would be great if the pump could just replace the union without too much hassle, but as with most things, I'm doubtfulEdit:

Pic of 6n2 pump unit

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/erniemak/6dd63ac7c5368d57dbab2ebaad210e36_zps422b6d08.jpg

Pic of 6n Union

http://i1310.photobucket.com/albums/s649/erniemak/7ca771290531ade38e51dafe09399664_zpsc8e47152.jpg

You will have to copy and paste as it doesn't let me paste a link on the iPad. Not a fault with the forum, it never has as it thinks it's a mobile

Edited 22 November, 201411 yr by dixy

6N2

6N

Muddi canal, that's kind of what I have done, but backwards, the AC came off a 96 car so I had to alter the wiring quite a bit. I have a complete early loom in sections, so if you need any bits or all of it etc, let me know as its in the way :)

I have a 6n without abs and a 6n2 with abs in the driveway just haven't had time to have a proper look at them. If your thinking of doing it, then perhaps you can offer up the pump unit to the existing Union bit and see if they are a million miles off.

I too will be stripping the whole car to pieces in the next few weeks as pretty much every mechanical bit will be changed, the shed is full of bits to go on, so if it will need new pipe work I will have to source it before jumping in.

Caretaker plus, that's good info, I didn't think of that. I imagine it would be greater, as even 4 very small Pistons will be bigger then the small one that's on there now.

forgive my noobness, but is CSA cross sectional area? If so, does that mean a larger master cylinder, in lamens terms? :)

Thanks

In laymen's terms "Yes" to the first one and "Yes" to the second. Remember that, even a few mm difference in diameter will make a big difference in cross sectional area, so you really need to work out the CSA rather than just go on diameter.

Regards

Another thought.

If you do use new plumbing, I would suggest that you buy copper alloy pipe, rather than bundytube (steel). It doesn't rust and is easier to bend and easier to flare than is steel pipe. The 'but' is that it costs more!!

Do NOT use pure copper pipe, as it work hardens and so is liable to crack, you may also have problems getting it accepted for MoT.

Regards

The ABS in my 6n "donor" is the same as the pictured 6n2 setup.

I've decided I'm not going to fit the ABS or Aircon so both will be available shortly.

On a side note, I have been reading up on golf brake upgrades and some have used Porsche 996 4 pots with 305mm discs, now I'm sold on them. Has anyone heard of this on a polo? I really hope it's doable because they would look awesome

I've seen that a few times before, aren't they the back callipers? Always been a little confused as to how they got around the handbrake mechanism. Unless they converted it to a ghetto line lock... #becauserwd