Hi there,

I'm just dreaming up a future engine swap. Basically I want to feel omnipotent in a polo.. Not in a boy racer way, but in a 'intercontinental cruiser' way. ha. Torque is key.

firstly is it feasible to put an AVY in a MK2/ MK2f polo?

secondly which transmission do I need? Are there different ones available or only one (6 speed if I remember correct).

Sorry if this is taking up space for serious matters!

Hi there,

I'm just dreaming up a future engine swap. Basically I want to feel omnipotent in a polo.. Not in a boy racer way, but in a 'intercontinental cruiser' way. ha. Torque is key.

firstly is it feasible to put an AVY in a MK2/ MK2f polo?

secondly which transmission do I need? Are there different ones available or only one (6 speed if I remember correct).

Sorry if this is taking up space for serious matters!

Yes AVY is feasible in a mk2 quite a few people have done it most using bike carbs. Some people have used the engine as a whole (1.6 head and bottom end) most use the 1.6 bottom end and the 1.4 16v AFH head.

Any Mk2/2f transmission will fit so you just have to pick which one. Long distances I would go for the 5 speed 8P (which could already be fitted to your current engine) or G40 (ATV) gearbox.

1.6/1.4 AFH/AVY hybrid FAQ

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=213191

A slightly simpler one is the 1.4 16v AFH engine.

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=174544

quite a bit can be found in my build thread

http://www.mk2polo.co.uk

Excellent, thanks mark! much appreciated.

125 Bhp to my thinking is more than enough for the road.

Wow that's a relief.. I can use any box! Excellent. I've already driven ATV, 8P, CEG and a 1 litre 5 speed.. ehem haha. Is there any way of modifying the standard boxes to have a very long 5th btw? The ATV was great, but the engines I've had tend to have a very pronounced hum at around 2450-500 which is the tallest 5th at 70mph. 2200 would be a lot better.

Why would I put an AFH head on an AVY bottom? Is it for ease of fitting?

What should I pay for a good one? I've seen them as low as 200 complete on ebay.

Many thanks!

Well, a 1.4 16v AFH made 100bhp standard, with bike carbs you are looking between 120-130bhp

1.4/1.6 16v AFH/AVY Hybrid would be about 140-145bhp running bike carbs

The AFH head is reported to be better flowing than the AVY one and the AVY has some added complexities with variable valve timing I think.

Off the top of my head you could fit an 8P 5th to an ATV box which would give 76mph on 175/60 13 tyres at 3000rpm. 5th IMO would then just become a cruising gear as you wouldn't get much acceleration in it.. but I've never tried it :)

As for price I'm not really sure. AFH engines range from 100 to 200 ish and then if you are going to run bike carbs you need to factor in inlet manifold and carbs+fuel pump

AVY's are 200-250 I guess. But if you are going to run the hybrid set up you need an afh head and then you are going need head bolts and all the other bits you need when building an engine up.

Okay so as I take it I want an AFH head to reduce faffing around+ get better flow. Maybe I shall buy on here then.

perhaps I should do bike carbs.. I'm not confident on setting up though. iirc my last rolling road session was only 90 quid (that was only a dual choke tho) so I'll leave it to a pro.

I presume you meant 2000rpm? The g40 box is about 2700 at that speed (155/80/13s).

Thanks for info on pricing. I'll buy on here for trust reasons.. never had any problems on here (bar once actually).

What have you done with your braking? I was thinking of fitting 175 60 13s (guessing that just clears?) plus uprating the standard brakes *MK2 btw* with greenstuff and vented discs... Plus perhaps a servo, but I think my foot is strong enough ha. Also stiff front springs+ shocks. Sound sensible?

Edited 30 December, 201411 yr by Breadvan Princess

Well really the choice is yours... :)

Bike carbs (or any carbs for that matter) would be easier on the wiring front as you would would use the standard mk2 engine bay loom. If you wanted to go with the fuel injection you then have to mess with the mk4/5 wiring loom and mate it to the mk2 one. But people have done this.

The little spreadsheet caclulator I have says on 155/80/13 70mph would be 2600 rpm. Obviously this is just a guide. You must remember at 2000/2500rpm there is very little torque on petrol engines so you 'may' find it a bit gutless on motorways and having to change down to 4th to increase your speed. maybe.. I'm just thinking (typing) out loud here! :)

Remember that buying an engine is just that, there are the extra things you would need to buy/make too. You have think thing about the exhaust manifold and system. inlet manifold and carbs if you are going that route and then getting it set up. Also it would be worth doing the water pump/belts whilst the engine is out as access is a bit tight when its in. And maybe changing the clutch whilst its out too.

And if you are going to think about doing the 1.4/1.6 hybrid engine you need to factor in head bolts/gaskets so the little things do add up. But if you are in no rush then just by the parts in bits over time. :)

If you are after a full 1.4 16v AFH setup with carbs and the lot, which is as plug and play as you can get, I think Toby (BShaw) might be selling the full AFH setup out of his car. I'm sure if you spoke to him nicely as well he could help/guide you in fitting it!! :-D

http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=285671

As for brakes I'm running VWII front setup which is what was fitted to G40's and Mk1 Golf GTI's. In modern standards without a brake servo they are pretty crap. However they do stop the car well if you fit decent brake pads and good brake fluid. You could fit a servo but aftermaket ones are a few hundred pounds so it is another expense that I don't think is needed as long as you have strong legs!! :-D

Lower suspension would make it more stable at speed and less wobbly round corners. But personally I would avoid cheap, stiff suspension kits. Spend a bit of money and get a decent ish kit like the H&R, or some decent dampers and springs.

175/60/13's were standard G40 tyres and with normal offset wheels should fit. Well they fit a coupe but you have breadvan rear arches so that may need looking into..

Sounds like you are on the slippery slope of car modding!! :)

Yeah injection the is gonna be too much of a faff for me. I hate electrics and worse electronics (by the by the pierburg carburettor was the smoothest runner (when it worked!) I've had).

The standard MK2 exhaust seems massive (comparing it with other small cars) to me already so I don't see why I need to fool around too much there. I will however be doing something about the manifold/ downpipe.

Thanks for the warning about expense. fortunately I've had some taste of this with a previous build. I'm trying to get the whole lot under 500 quid, but I might well fail.

I thought the g40s only went up to 165? a set of mid profile 175s I had on a mk2f just fouled. So I'm guessing the low profiles just clear (unless the g40 has more room).

Strong legs and hopefully a small steering wheel so I can fit them under it (!!!!).

My 1,3 picked up ok from the ATVs 2350 70mph cruise speed (relying on my cheap tacho), 60mph however was a change down speed. I am of course bearing that in mind.. Maybe it's not worth it.. it may of course affect top speed (I'm thinking autobahn of course

Perhaps an 8p is the best way to go. The ATV would be better as some of those changes are gonna be really quick.. but for the difference in outlay, not worth it.

The 4+e found in the formel-e had a tall 5th IIRC attached to a fairly close first 4 gears. The idea was to improve economy by reducing revs at cruising speeds. I'm sure there was a table of gear box ratios posted a few years back. Was it ever made a sticky Mark?

Do we have any reliable data regarding flow rates comparing the AFH and AVY heads? I don't recall seeing any.

The 4+e found in the formel-e had a tall 5th IIRC attached to a fairly close first 4 gears. The idea was to improve economy by reducing revs at cruising speeds. I'm sure there was a table of gear box ratios posted a few years back. Was it ever made a sticky Mark?

Are these obtainable? I'm guessing it wouldn't be any taller than the ATV?..

Do we have any reliable data regarding flow rates comparing the AFH and AVY heads? I don't recall seeing any.

This may be useful if there is..

I've got a spreadsheet but i'll need to format it but here is a jpg

As for the heads its been talked about a bit but I don't remember seeing any flow ratings. However the AVY ports are noticeably smaller than the AFH ones.

excellent, thanks. I've been doing some gear ratio homework too..

I've scouted the web for an astonishing one hour(!) looking for the tallest and meanest 085 fifth gears :

Tall: DXG

Final Drive: 3.588

0.740

RPM @70mph (Assuming145/80/13 roadwheels): Approx.2800

Tall: DXE

Final Drive: 3.588

5th Gear: 0.740

RPM @70mph (Assuming145/80/13 roadwheels): Approx.2800

Very Tall: DXF

Final Drive: 3.588

0.706

RPM @70mph (Assuming145/80/13 roadwheels): Approx.2700

Fucking tall: DSK

(Audi A2)

3.333

0.642

RPM @70mph (Assuming145/80/13 roadwheels): Approx.2300

Please note if anyone is reading this looking for a box, most of these are unsuitable for a standard 8V.

replying here (http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=250943&p=2648277)

than in the FAQ

There is no replacement for displacement...

125bhp * 1.6l /1.4l = 142bhp

You won't put that amount onto the road with 145/80/r13s though!

Edited 31 December, 201411 yr by dvderlm

lol I know