Don't laugh.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66862&page=3

People seem to enjoy their purchase @ above

Read page 17 where a guy is disappointing massively then open his bonnet and realizes....

then gets back in the car for a second try...

Phantom Eleccy charger.

There's a dyno testing on youtube on a vw golf (20-30% bhp gain)

Edited 27 September, 201510 yr by damunk

Do I understand right that this needs 2 extra batteries and cabling plus the turbine?

So power to weight takes a hit when turbine not in action.

So useless for a long race, but good around town (to charge up the batteries) then onto the freeway for a blast.

"The compressor wheel runs at a near constant rpm when activated, this results in a high pressure ratio at low engine rpm and a tapering off throughout the engine’s rpms. This simple fact keeps the injectors from being overworked at a higher rpm since boost decreases with rpm. "

Wonder if this kind of supercharger/turbo would work well with the carb setup .

Also if the boost tapers off. Is low compression pistons required? Does not seem like the guys who have already bought this have modified anything else with their engines.

Read this:

http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/tech.html

No addiotnal battery weight:

"Power to the supercharger comes from an independent 24volt source which simply replaces the existing starter battery, a separate compact battery is substituted for the starter battery, all three fit inside the stock starter battery area and there is no additional weight."

Edited 27 September, 201510 yr by damunk

Have you seen the price?

I only found a few people mention price (their website doesn't seem to) but at around $2000 or £1300 then it is a bit expensive.

Then you have to get it mapped etc.

You wouldn't be much more to bolt an actual turbo onto your car, infact if you knew what you were doing you could bolt one on for a lot less.

Wonder if it is feasible that's all in terms of technology. To D.I.Y should be easy? Just looks like a turbo like compressor with a 24 v battery setup.

weather it's a con or not.

. Will search if any automobile manufactures are developing /going this route.

simple clean setup for road. Small bursts after re-charge. One can dream.... and dream.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7003980-My-FRS-Electric-Supercharger-included

Edited 27 September, 201510 yr by damunk

I only read a few posts on that link you showed and did a bit of Googling, but I saw 4.5psi quoted as a maximum boost figure which doesn't sound like much at all. Take a 1.8 20vT Golf for example. As standard they boost at around 8-9psi which tails off to around 6-7psi at the red line and they don't feel like they have a turbo.

Obviously it depends on the engine you're putting it on etc. but still £1300 for 4.5psi of boost??

I'm just not convinced. I have doubts about the power gains, since you have to re-map the car, how much of the power gains can be had from a re-map alone? Also what effect does it have on the charging system? Surely the alternator will have more load placed on it during the recharge cycle? Finally, what about constant use, like on track for example? Does it suddenly cut off once you run out of juice?

Yep, but this is the way things could go. More electricity based.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140803/OEM10/308049992/electric-turbocharger-eliminates-lag-valeo-says

http://europe.autonews.com/article/20150413/ANE/150419988/valeo-says-audi-will-use-its-supercharger-to-reduce-lag-and-save-fuel

Also VW unveiling one too.

This it's either 24 v or 48 v battery. Yeah it does cut off but for road application it's perfect. Who races around non stop on street for over a minute. It's sudden bursts, over taking or belting it down slip road.

More will do it. Prices will come down. and yeah the phantom one is around 7 psi boost which tales down to around 4-5 i reckon as higher rpm it tails down.

Approx 15bhp gain i reckon in a smaller engine setup.

The alternator must need beefing up. Batteries must die sooner you would have thought. very interesting stuff!

"From what I’m imagining, this would use regenerative braking to charge the battery that runs the supercharger" qoute comment from another source regarding battery charging.

A very interesting comment from one of the google links:

"It’s a matter of inertial load.

Hook that supercharger directly to the crankshaft and it joins the direct inertial loads of the crankshaft, rods and pistons, and by the crank’s timing link to the camshaft, indirectly to the inertial loads of the entire valvetrain as well. All those moving parts have to be strengthened to sustain those loads, which adds weight and expense.

Now connect that supercharger to an electric motor, and the motor takes on only the inertial load of the supercharger. Less loads and stress, which allows all those parts rotating in the crankcase to run without parasitic losses from the supercharger. Adding an extra motor to the car actually reduces complexity in the long run."

Edited 27 September, 201510 yr by damunk

Hook one of these to the intake http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__45230__Dr_Mad_Thrust_70mm_10_Blade_Alloy_EDF_2200kv_Motor_1900watt_6s_Counter_Rotating_.html you'll need a 22v Lipo battery to run it but they only weigh 800g

But you could just fit an electric clutch just like used on air conditioning compressors to a conventional supercharge. No parasitic losses when just the outer pulley of the clutch is turning.

Charging the aux battery and electric motor is not 100% efficient.

And it has to spin the turbine wheel when it detects vacuum just enough to stop being an intake obstruction which takes current from the charging circuit so power from the alternator which IS a parasitic loss.

@nige: that design what u posted causes retortion. + phantom's been proven on dyno.

@nige: that design what u posted causes retortion. + phantom's been proven on dyno.

It wasn't meant as a serious method :)

I built some of the VW prototypes before Valeo bought the design. Back then it was used as a fill in to allow the use of a larger turbo and remove the lag. The original demonstrator was a 1.2 TDi with 170hp. Full boost was available in around 150ms.

! That must have been neck jolting.

One of the cars it's designed for runs 12.5.1 compression. Seems like high compression setups can handle it due to the boost tapering off at high end.