Hey everyone, me again! 

 

I have identified a rattling/wobbling coming from my steering column and think I've figured out what the problem is, just not sure what to do about it.

 

It's a 6N1, see attached photo, this is the bottom of the steering column. The spring you see appears loose, it moves up and down and goes freely in and out of the column. It seems like there's meant to be a cap or something at the end of the column, keeping the spring inside and the column central inside what it's in?

 

Any idea what I can do about this, can I replace the cap at the end fairly easily?

Or is it new column time, and is that easy to do?

 

I've done cam belt/water pump before but that's the most complex thing I've done to put my technical knowledge into perspective...

 

And last question, like this is it safe to drive? 

 

Thanks all! 

Edited 22 July, 201610 yr by goldielocks
Added photo, couldn't do it on my phone for some reaoson..

Is anyone able to help?

I've only just spotted your post.

You seem to have the later type steering column here (1998 onwards)

I thought that the spring was supposed to contact the inner column at the universal joint (as yours does in the picture) and the top end contacted the bearing in the outer column? I'm not sure of the purpose of said spring, other than to retain the lower bearing.

The spring being loose, might well cause a rattle, but can't see it causing a steering wobble, which is generally caused by worn steering joints, and exacerbated by road wheels being out of balance.

Removal of the column is a real pain, so I would suggest that you check everything else first, including track rod ends, top and bottom steering joints and even the mounting of the steering rack.

In any case, I seem to remember that the steering column comes as a complete assembly.

Let us know how you go on with this.

 

Regards

On 8/2/2016 at 16:51, caretakerplus said:

I've only just spotted your post.

You seem to have the later type steering column here (1998 onwards)

I thought that the spring was supposed to contact the inner column at the universal joint (as yours does in the picture) and the top end contacted the bearing in the outer column? I'm not sure of the purpose of said spring, other than to retain the lower bearing.

The spring being loose, might well cause a rattle, but can't see it causing a steering wobble, which is generally caused by worn steering joints, and exacerbated by road wheels being out of balance.

Removal of the column is a real pain, so I would suggest that you check everything else first, including track rod ends, top and bottom steering joints and even the mounting of the steering rack.

In any case, I seem to remember that the steering column comes as a complete assembly.

Let us know how you go on with this.

 

Regards

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

I've taken a look at the spring and captured a video of how much it moves up and down, see:

 

 

I was able to produce a fairly loud clonking noise while I was taking the above video, by just moving the steering wheel slightly while it's in a certain position.

I've taken a video of the bottom of the rack / top of that spring while the clunking is being produced:

 

 

It appears that the column is moving inside the sleeve (sorry for probably incorrect wording there!) as it's moving up and down in that video. Is there supposed to be something there keeping that whole column central inside the sleeve? Or would you say that bottom bearing is knackered / something else is wrong?

 

 

I've recently had the wheels balanced and the tracking done, so I don't think it's either of those... it feels like it's related to this clonking, rather than being something seperate? I can always investigate other stuff.. I did hear replacing the steering column was a right pain (any mention of the 'shear bolts' has me kinda nervous) but this clonking doesn't seem right either so I guess I still need to get to the bottom of that if you have any ideas?

 

 

There is a fair amount of wear in that Lower bearing, but I am more concerned about that clunking sound - Is it when you partially rotate the steering wheel? If so, you should check the universal joint where the steering column joins the steering unit .

There is a splined sleeve on the U/J which engages a male spline on the steering unit. There is also a clamp bolt that clamps the U/J to the male spline.

If those splines are 'jumping', it would give you a clunking sound. The problem is, that the pinch bolt (clamp bolt) can appear to be tight, but in fact, the female spline is not tightening sufficiently onto the male spline.

Under such conditions, there is a real danger that you would be unable to steer the car if the situation became worse.

There is also a torque limiting device in the column and it is possible that this may produce the clunking.

If you are in any doubt about checking or repairing these components, it is vital that you get someone who is familiar with them to check/repair it for you.

 

Regards

On 8/7/2016 at 11:11, caretakerplus said:

There is a fair amount of wear in that Lower bearing, but I am more concerned about that clunking sound - Is it when you partially rotate the steering wheel? If so, you should check the universal joint where the steering column joins the steering unit .

There is a splined sleeve on the U/J which engages a male spline on the steering unit. There is also a clamp bolt that clamps the U/J to the male spline.

If those splines are 'jumping', it would give you a clunking sound. The problem is, that the pinch bolt (clamp bolt) can appear to be tight, but in fact, the female spline is not tightening sufficiently onto the male spline.

Under such conditions, there is a real danger that you would be unable to steer the car if the situation became worse.

There is also a torque limiting device in the column and it is possible that this may produce the clunking.

If you are in any doubt about checking or repairing these components, it is vital that you get someone who is familiar with them to check/repair it for you.

 

Regards

@caretakerplus thanks for helping me out with this!

 

I'll take a look at that bolt tonight and see if that's the cause. On the Haynes diagram (if you have one to hand, if not it appears to be similar here http://goo.gl/rvi8tV) it's number 28 I think you're talking about yeah? I assume I can just stick a socket on it and a reasonably sized breaker bar and see if it will tighten anymore? Or should I go for a torque wrench and see if it's up to torque, I think the Haynes says it's 30Nm? Not sure I'd want to undo it and retighten as I think I'd need a new bolt, unless you think a retighten with a new bolt might be a good idea to try with?

 

I am guessing the torque limiting device is something that's not serviceable from the outside and would require a replacement column if it was that.. so if it's not the bolt above I think I'll try a local mechanic and see if they an professionally diagnose, like you say it's not worth the risk just to save the £30 or whatever it would take for them to inspect and report properly for me. If it is a replacement column then I'd probably like to give it a go myself (and try not to ask another barrage of questions :-P!), but to check it out I think they might be my best bet, failing the bolt above.

As I said above, That clamp bolt can appear to be tight and doing what its name implies, but - the splines may not be holding properly.

This is why I suggested getting it checked out.

1 hour ago, caretakerplus said:

As I said above, That clamp bolt can appear to be tight and doing what its name implies, but - the splines may not be holding properly.

This is why I suggested getting it checked out.

Ah okay yeah I'm with you. I'll get it checked, and let you know what they say.

On 8/8/2016 at 15:57, caretakerplus said:

As I said above, That clamp bolt can appear to be tight and doing what its name implies, but - the splines may not be holding properly.

This is why I suggested getting it checked out.

 

So @caretakerplus I've had it checked out at a friendly garage and they said it's definitely the steering column, more specifically the universal joint at the bottom, and that my best bet is to find a good condition used column (which includes the UJ) and either fit it myself, or they reckoned they could do it for 1.5 hours labour. They didn't go into detail about the splines or anything and I didn't want to push them too much (they looked at it for free while they were checking something else)... 

 

I seem to be able to get them used from eBay for around £20-£30 (much less than I was expecting!)... I'm tempted to give it a go myself, what is it about the column that makes removal a pain, is it just the shear bolts that make it difficult or is there other stuff that's difficult as well?

 

In Haynes the steps seem do-able, except where it states:

 

Quote

The column upper UJ cannot be separated on the later column - based on our experience of an earlier-type column in the workshop - this suggests that the column cannot be removed from the car, and it certainly cannot be removed from the column tube, without cutting through the column shaft.

 

Not sure how true that is, seeing as there are people selling them complete with tube, it must be possible to remove them somehow. Is it just a case of undoing the lower UJ and removing everything from there upwards, including the tube? Maybe easier said than done!

 

Thanks for your continued help on this, if you're ever down south give me a shout, I owe you a few beers 

You could try Stevens VW breakers in Essex for a complete column, might workout easier, the shear bolts are the only tricky things

I would agree with Nige there.

Stevens have been going for years and are reliable, they are not likely to sell you one that is as bad as the existing one - I'm always a bit cautious about things on e-Bay, they are not always as good as how they are described.

Before fitting the 'new' column, make sure that the splines in the steering unit (steering rack if you like) are in good condition.

Regards

Thanks both, yeah I've had stuff from Stevens before so I'll give them a try see what they can do this time.

 

I'm mid-way through removing the old one, just got to the point I need to take the shear bolts out, and thought I'd take a break before I attempt them.

The rest of it was fairly straight forward, so hoping these are as well (  ) I've read lots about different ways people remove them, hopefully one will work for me too!

 

In terms of fitting the replacement, will I need to order new sheer bolts to go back in, or could I just use regular bolts sufficiently torqued instead, for ease of disassembly next time? I've seen mention somewhere of having to replace the UJ bolt and nut, is that correct or could I reuse? Do I need special VW ones from the dealer or just a regular nut/bolt?

It's really up to you regarding the shear bolts, if you do replace with standard bolts just ensure they're 10.9 or higher strength, the dealer manual just says "Replace captive nut on joint with a self-locking nut"  Here's the info from the dealer manual 6N1 Steering Column RR.doc

On 11/08/2016 at 18:31, nige8021 said:

It's really up to you regarding the shear bolts, if you do replace with standard bolts just ensure they're 10.9 or higher strength, the dealer manual just says "Replace captive nut on joint with a self-locking nut"  Here's the info from the dealer manual 6N1 Steering Column RR.doc

 

Nice one Nige, thank you. I've ordered some 10.9 bolts which should be arriving over the next few days.

 

What torque would you recommend I do them up to, do you know what torque the shear bolts shear at? 

 

P.S. one shear bolt off so far - managed to fit an angle grinder in to the right hand side bolt (somehow) and took the head clean off! Not as much space for the left one though so going to try and tackle that one tomorrow...

That's the problem, you just do them up till they shear, but they're M8 bolts ?  so I'd go to 20~30Nm

23 hours ago, nige8021 said:

That's the problem, you just do them up till they shear, but they're M8 bolts ?  so I'd go to 20~30Nm

 

Okay will do, thank you :-)

On 8/10/2016 at 15:46, caretakerplus said:

I would agree with Nige there.

Stevens have been going for years and are reliable, they are not likely to sell you one that is as bad as the existing one - I'm always a bit cautious about things on e-Bay, they are not always as good as how they are described.

Before fitting the 'new' column, make sure that the splines in the steering unit (steering rack if you like) are in good condition.

Regards

 

So shear bolts and old column removed, and replacement column coming over the next few days.. see attached pic for the splines at the top of the steering unit, anything I should look for specifically to check the condition? It looks okay to my eye, but then I'm not 100% sure what to look for - I'm assuming it's meant to have a flat side, if not I have problems! I can take better photos if required.

Those splines look to be nicely defined, so should be OK.

just check that the 'new' U/J female splines look like that and are a good fit.

Regards

New column fitted and clunking noise (and play) have disappeared!

 

The female splines looked great and fit well, the only pain was getting them onto the spline enough that the clamp bolt lined up with the groove, but I managed to get it in place just about and the bolt through okay.

 

Thanks both for your help on this, wouldn't have been able to do it without you!!

 

 

P.S. not sure what to accept as the best answer? They all contributed!