OK.  I'm gonna have some free time from around the 21st of October and I'm getting ready to attempt the Cambelt and Water Pump on my 6N2, Petrol, 8 Valve, 1.4 with 134,000 on the clock.  Engine code is AKK.  As some of you know I'm gently building my experience and am hoping this will be an achievable step for me.

 

I have this excellent guide here: 

I still have loads of questions though (as usual).

 

My tools are a random assortment that I just get by on and have built up over the years.  Steveo said the 6mm Allen Socket is a must for this job.  Is it seriously time to go for something proper like one of these?

http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/socket-sets/halfords-advanced-200-piece-socket-and-ratchet-spanner-set

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bahco-S138-Metric-Imperial-Square/dp/B007258T4U

 

I'm seriously thinking about the Bahco but I see the ratchets use a release mechanism for the sockets and fit really tightly.  Am worried I won't be able to pull the sockets off a normal breaker bar and think I read one review somewhere suggesting such.  However the Bahco are six sided flank drive style which is nice.  They were about £152 yesterday but since I looked at them Amazon have put 'em up to £179 - suspicious or what and the second time this has happened to me on amazon!?!?

 

Can I use a standard 19mm ring spanner to turn the engine over (with the plugs out) or should I get the proper 19mm VW style 12 point socket?

Should I do the thermostat at the same time (given mileage and age)?

Haynes doesn't show that I need to remove the "right-hand mounting-to-block" but several places I've seen show it blocks the top Water Pump Bolt.  Any ideas for the AKK engine?

Should I flush the cooling system with tap water? Reverse flush the heater core (I don't think it gets quite as warm as quick inside as it did years back)? The system has never had any eggs or other radiator repair products in it.

Which Blue Loctite do I need - if I can't get all the replacement bolts?

 

OK.  Think that is it at the moment. Thanks in advance as usual!

 

probably need a socket to turn the bottom pulley as id imagine its too recessed to use a spanner.....its not a special vw fixing its just 12 point like a spanner or some sockets 

 

yes you can flush it with a hosepipe  if you feel its grotty

Thanks steveo.  Just thinking - until now I thought: jack up the driver's side only - is there any reason to jack up the passenger side too?

 

By the way I went with the Bahco 138 set from amazon cos they were at £152 for a short while, seem like a good deal.  Bit concerned that the six points might upset access with a breaker bar but I've already got quite a few 12 point 1/2" drive sockets for those instances I suppose.

just need the driver side raised  

Cheers.  Let's hope I get some good weather from the end of next week!

good luck , just remember do not start it until youre 100% sure its right , check it 2 or 3 times if you have to

There is little point in changing the thermostat if it is working OK - If the engine normally runs at about 90°c (on the temperature gauge) then it is fine.

 I don't know if VW still do a service exchange water pump, but is well worth asking - you get a brand new pump in part exchange for your old one.

It is OK to use a garden hose on the cooling system/heater - just don't try a pressure washer!

 

Blue Loctite (or any other thread sealing compound) is not a substitute for new bolts, it is simply a means of preventing the bolt/nut/stud from becoming loose.

The reason that new bolts are frequently recommended, is due to the following:

When a bolt is tightened up, it is stretched, all metal has an 'elastic limit', beyond which it will not retract to its original length when tension is removed.

Different grades of steel have different degrees of tensile strength  - this is why it is important to buy the CORRECT bolt -  not just one of the correct dimensions and thread.

This is of particular importance for highly stressed bolts (such as used on the cylinder head) which, in normal use, are tightened to a point close to that elastic limit.

To tighten a bolt beyond its elastic limit would result in what is termed 'necking' where the bolt looses some of its diameter somewhere in the middle of its length.

One reason for tightening things with more than one bolt in them evenly, is to ensure that an even load is applied over the entire area (Cylinder head again being a good example)

Tightening to the correct torque (plus in some cases, angle) is to ensure that the bolt(s) are tightened sufficiently, without being over-tightened, exceeding the elastic limit.

One of the main skills that we need to gain, is to develop a sense of 'feel' when tightening things up. ONE way of gaining that skill, is to tighten a bolt/nut to its correct torque with a torque wrench, then mark the bolt head in relation to whatever it is tightened up to, slacken it off again, and then tighten it with an ordinary spanner/socket handle 'till the marks line up - In doing that, you have gained a skill of 'feel' - the next time, you will know how far to tighten it.

 

Regards

Your best tool with a timing belt is tip ex, trust me I speak from experience. Several of belts I've done I've had to use tipex when I've not had the proper timing tools and it works everytime

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Thanks guys all!!

 

caretakerplus that's some great information.  Probably won't change the thermostat then - thanks! I managed to get new bolts from TPS for just about everything and am going to torque and angle as necessary on oiled threads (without loctite).  I also really like your idea of torquing up, marking off, undoing and tightening again by hand to get an idea for feel.

 

Thanks mad-dean.  Got the tipex in.

 

So got one little problem.  TPS gave me M8 35mm bolts for the water pump but they're not hex or torx they're the splined bits like these:

 

Up until now I was under the belief they were M6 Allen heads but I took the top cambelt cover off and can just see they are either torx or indeed the splined bolts.  Can't get a decent picture or measure without actually starting the job.

 

Think I should get the 1/2" drive set in from Halfords (just in case) before I start:

http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/socket-sets/halfords-advanced-7-piece-spline-bit-socket-rail-1-2

 

Can anyone confirm what bolts are on the AKK 1.4 8valve petrol?  The bolts I was given are 911-022-01.  Which as you can see from here (bolt 12): http://nemiga.com/cat_spares/etka/volkswagen/po/747/121200/

fit on a water pump!

 

Edited 21 October, 20169 yr by cosaw

They should be   N  90215602

socket head bolt with hexagon socket head (combination)

M8X35

Many thanks nige.  That would seem reasonable on the face of it and I'm sure they'll fit however what's on definitely isn't hexagon.  As I say I can't see well enough yet (without starting the job proper) but they're either torx or the 12 point spline that TPS gave me.  Seems I'll need an M8 Torx (which should be coming in my new socket set) or an M8 Spline to get the old bolts out anyway!  Think I'll have to get the spline bits in just in case!

 

This job better work out otherwise the tools certainly won't pay for themselves in one go!

The bolt you've pictured is an M8 spline  so if you get the "Spline" set you'll be set if you need to get a driveshaft off as they are also M8 spline bolts on the inner CV joints

Cheers nige.  I might pop to TPS tomorrow to get the bolts you listed too in case I decide to put those back.  Thanks for suggesting TPS as I didn't know about them beforehand - service and price has been good so far and 5 litres of Synta 10w40 at £10 is a bargain!  As I say the picture is what TPS  gave me (the head not the length) and I can't quite see what's on the car by looking under the top cambelt cover alone but it isn't hex unfortunately.

 

Will keep you all informed.  Thanks for the great help as usual!

Quote

It is OK to use a garden hose on the cooling system/heater - just don't try a pressure washer!

 

Aside from going directly through the heater matrix (to see if I can get it warmer inside the car quicker) I don't really know where to flush from as there will be a closed thermostat in the loop.  How do you go about it?

 

To be honest it should be clean as a whistle in there as it's always had the correct coolant and no other products to my knowledge.

Edited 22 October, 20169 yr by cosaw

unless the coolant drops out like muddy pond water theres little point in trying to flush it out , proper coolant should have kept it a1 

On 10/22/2016 at 08:55, steveo3002 said:

unless the coolant drops out like muddy pond water theres little point in trying to flush it out , proper coolant should have kept it a1 

 

Yes, this is what I'm thinking.  Will see what it comes out like.

Update and more queries.

 

Quick aside - Water Pump Bolts did turn out to be hex head in the end and not spline.

 

So I took everything apart except going as far as the cambelt tensioner to see if everything is doable.  I found that if I want to torque the water pump bolts and (more importantly the cambelt tensioner pulley bolt) correctly, then my dad's 1/2" drive torque wrench is too big for access.  Wanting to get these bolts right I think I'll splash out on the 3/8ths drive Halfords Torque wrench to see if I can get better access next week.

 

Caretakerplus provided great info on Torque and Angle and New Bolts.  This gives me some concerns now though.  Seeing as I'm doing the job proper in another weeks time I reassembled everything.  Top engine mount requires new bolts with oiled thread at 40NM + 90 degrees angle.  I've got new bolts but I put the old bolts back for now but without blue loctite.  I torqued the bolts but didn't angle them.  I had a feel at the angle with a 2 foot breaker bar and to me it seems like they ain't gonna go 90 degrees without breaking the engine threads or my weak back (seriously I'm nursing a lifelong disc problem).

 

The big question then - should new bolts, with oiled threads, (after torque) angle to 90 degrees with ease?  Is it because the old bolts are already stretched that 90 degrees just feels like too much?

 

To play safe I'm feeling old bolts with loctite might be best.

Edited 5 November, 20169 yr by cosaw
Corrections.

dont be trying to stretch old bolts...good chance you will snap them

Thanks for the advice.  So if old bolts then I can torque but no angle and use loctite?

Update and questions.  Half way through the job - stopping due to weather.

 

Question.  I drained the coolant from the bottom radiator hose and got about half out.  Then when I removed the water pump the other half of the coolant came out and went everywhere.  How do I stop this from happening in future?  How do I get ALL the coolant out the bottom radiator hose instead?

 

I have new bolts all round.  Haynes usually says to oil threads in specific places.  However Haynes doesn't say to oil threads on the 'right-hand mounting-to-block bolts' - have they mistakenly missed this information out or should I take no oil as correct in this instance?

fairly typical that all the water doesnt drain  out ..thats just what happens

 

if no mention of oil then i wouldnt use any , in my little experience its mostly head bolts /engine internals that spec oiled threads 

Cheers steveo!  I literally only got out half (if not less) the coolant.  If I took the stat out and then put the cover back (for flushing purposes) then I'd get loads of water left behind in the block and couldn't mix in the coolant to the correct ratio.  You can't be expected to remove the Water Pump to properly drain?? Anyways!  Don't think I will flush as it came out clean.

 

Lets hope the weather dries up tomorrow!

PROBLEMS.  Help needed quickly.

 

Everything back together. Got the tensioner as close as can be with the pointer. Timing marks slipped a little but I corrected.

 

Not got enough coolant in - AIRLOCK I CAN'T SEEM TO SHIFT.

 

MORE IMPORTANTLY - new belt seems to be making different NOISE AND SMELL.  I'm sure I did everything right.  Only thing I changed was put a secondhand replacement cambelt lower cover on as old one was broken.

 

The noise is different but not excessive.  The smell came after a few minutes.  Is this just the new belt bedding in?

 

 

Edited 13 November, 20169 yr by cosaw
Corrections.

No, if you'be noise and smell from the belt it's not running in, it's rubbing. 

 

You need to (at least) get the plastic covers back off and look for marks to show what's going on. 

 

My money would be on the new cover if you've done a straight job on the belt

Edited 13 November, 20169 yr by Duffy

Cheers Duffy.  Many thanks for such a quick response.  I will get the covers off and see if it makes a difference.  Maybe not till Tuesday or Thursday now though so without a car again.  Oh well.