so will it turn over with a spanner with the plugs taken out ...clockwise?

It does roll freely when in N. That would suggest no drag from the gearbox.  The selector cable is also nice and secure.

 

Just studying the Haynes manual and it says that the Torque converter has an automatic lock up feature, which eliminates any possibility of converter slip in the top two gears. I wonder if this has stayed locked up ?

 

Oh well, the Haynes also says that any auto transmission probs should be diagnosed at a VW garage before proceeding with gearbox removal. Good advice really, so I'll have to bite the bullet and get her booked in.

Oh crap :(   they charge £11 for a headlight bulb.

id ring a few autobox places and ask if what you think is happening is possible 

 

i doubt an older car has any diagnostics for the box , so a main dealer will just charge you silly money   

18 minutes ago, steveo3002 said:

i doubt an older car has any diagnostics for the box , so a main dealer will just charge you silly money   

 

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/polo+derby+vento-ind/po/1998-158/9/927-927050/#1  

fair enough

 

still not sure i would get a main dealer involved , surley its going to want second hand /aftermarket parts if theres something broken 

Hi

Just a thought.

Did the AA lad look under the distributor cap? If not, do so and look for any oil near the hall sender. This can affect the timing of the spark.

 

 

I didnt realise we'd gone on to a second page... Doh ...

 

On 12/4/2017 at 20:58, steveo3002 said:

so will it turn over with a spanner with the plugs taken out ...clockwise?

 

It wont turn clockwise with plugs out and a spanner on the bottom pulley bolt. I tried and thought it had seized up, until I tried it anti clockwise and it turned freely. So freely, it hardly slackened the belt. Not enough to worry about anyway.

No, it hasnt got any diagnostics on the box either. So it's not going to the VW garage.

 

Ringing some autobox specialists is a good idea Steveo and thanks for the link Nige. I was looking for one of those.

 

Just had a chat with a mechanic at the VW garage and he said that the gearbox has got to come off to ascertain if its stopping the engine from rotating freely. He also thought that the auto lock in the torque converter might be the problem.

If I get it off and its the cause, then I'll just have to get the box off the donor car.

Not very good timing with the weather just about to turn a bit arctic. May be able to get into a barn though, but not the donor car .

 

vwfan3 -  Before the AA lad came out, I'd had the disi cap off and checked everything and cleaned it all. No sign of any oil.

 

I'll have a chat with some autobox specialists and hope that its something simple that can be fixed without removing the box. As it happened out of the blue with no dodgy noises beforehand, there's a chance it might be something simple.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've called round some auto trans specialists and had varying degrees of helpfulness.  The up shot is that none of them have heard of what I describe, dont normally deal with cars of that age and suggest it's brought in for diagnosis.

 

The nearest one is about 50 miles away and charge £90 for a look. if I was prepared to plunder the depths of the wallet, I'd be better to take it to the VW garage round the corner.

 

If I'm going to persevere with this car, it's looking like gearbox removal is the next thing to do. I've grown out of scrabbling around on the ground though and dont have access to a ramp.

 I am also considering getting another car, although I'd rather not.

 

I'm quite interested in getting to the bottom of this problem, even if it's just to know whats caused it ? ? ?

is the starter attached to the engine or box?

 

was thinking get a mobile mech to pull the box and see if it starts , shouldnt be more than 2 hrs to drop it so maybe 70-80£  ...or ask around for more opinions as im not totally convinced its the box

The starter is in the usual position, under the throttle.

 

I dont think it's the box either. I reckon it's the torque converter, but I'm not familiar enough with the transfer of drive between the crank and gearbox to get my head round what could be causing this drag on the engine and why only clockwise ?

 

The auto lock in the torque converter for the top two gears is something I'm wondering about. Dont know how it works, but wondering if it's stuck on ?

Worn cam or crank pulley keyway could mean engine timing out and rising piston brushes on a closing inlet valve.

The wear would only be in normal direction of travel. I mended an AHW 16v 1.4 Lupo with stripped cambelt due to this.

A starter motor is stronger than your arm because of the gearing of 1.1kW on flywheel cog teeth.

 

Replaced the cambelt 6K ago. I've examined it thoroughly when turning the engine over from the bottom pulley and the teeth all look good. The tension is still A Ok .

If there was some belt slip causing piston meets valve and stopping engine rotation, this would also apply when the engine is turned over (by hand) in the wrong direction ? The engine will just keep going backwards.  Also, if a valve was touching a piston, you would have to advance the engine to the point of contact before it stopped. It doesnt matter how much you turn the engine backwards, it wont go forward at all, from any position.

Hi

What if something in the 'bell housing' area is acting like a rachet sticking to the teeth in the flywheel?

Is there a sort of a window plate you can remove from the bottom of the bell housing  and do a visual inspection or hearing test ?

would it be worth dropping the starter off to eliminate that ?  at least its free to try

I've changed the starter. That was one of the first things I did. After putting a good battery on and it still wouldnt turn over, the next thing was the starter.

 

I'll have a look and see if I can find someway of checking to see if there is anything acting like a ratchet on the flywheel gear.

Whatever it is, its not locking it up as the starter will turn it slowly, but it dont half make it grunt.

 

Will have to try and get the car under cover. Still too much snow and ice on the ground for scrabbling about.

Been using the Mrs car while the weathers been bad, but had cause to look for something in the Polo and while I was in it, I thought I'd try and turn it over.

Not only did it turn over at a normal speed, it almost started too. But then it felt like I'd missed the boat, so to speak.

I carried on turning it over, still at a normal cranking speed. It nearly fired a couple of times. But while turning it over, I could hear what sounded like a dry metal squeak coming from somewhere.

I'm inclined to go with the suggestion that something has made its way into the bell housing and is/was acting like a ratchet on the flywheel.

When turning the engine over with a spanner, I was surprised to be able to see the back of the flywheel and ring gear going round. Viewed from the drivers side, looking across toward the passenger side, at the end of the engine, front side, there it was, going round, plane to see. Like there was some finishing plate missing. ? ? ?

If something has got in, then it obviously went in there. But should there be a plate there ?  I cant see it would have been left open like that ?

Edited 17 January, 20188 yr by Polo3

I'd expect a cover.

Can you look on 7zap for an exploded diagram using your engine code/Polo year?

 

 

There is a lower cover listed https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/polo+derby+vento-ind/po/1998-158/3/300-300080/#11 and upper plate https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/polo+derby+vento-ind/po/1998-158/1/103-103005/#26 but only appears to be for manual transmission

 

Thanks dvderlm and Nige

 

Had a look on 7zap using the VIN and could only find a lower finishing plate.

But the opening I spotted at the front of the convertor housing has a bolt hole that looks like it's for a plate. There is a bolt for this hole on the 7zip parts diagram, but no plate.

I'll have a look on the donor car.

Or pop down the Vdub garage.

 

It's still turning over nicely and threatening to fire up. But something isnt right. It's normally fires up straight away.

Edited 17 January, 20188 yr by Polo3

Just managed to get a pic of the opening. You can just make out the bolt hole.

The only mention in the Haynes is this

If there is one fitted, it would have to come off to remove the box ? So you'd think it would be mentioned in the Haynes.

It doesnt seem right that they would leave a forward facing opening for the convertor housing ?  As well as the bolt hole, there's a lug on the end of the block that a finishing plate would sit behind.

Forgot the keys for donor motor today and didnt have time to go to the Vdub garage.

I'll try and remember the keys tomorrow.

Will def get to the bottom of this.

tbh it looks like its for https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/polo+derby+vento-ind/po/1998-158/1/103-103005/#26 ??

Been taking the lazy path of least resistance and using the Mrs's car, but decided to dive into the Polo today to try and get to the bottom of the problem.

Found that the auxiliary drive tensioner had seized up. The old starter and not too great battery didnt have the grunt to turn it over. This explains why it would rotate anticlockwise, as the belt tension was reduced and it was riding over the seized tensioner.

With a good battery and better starter motor, this eventually broke the seized tensioner thus allowing the engine to turn freely. but she still wouldn't start ?

Upon close inspection, I found that the cambelt had jumped two teeth, somehow ? So I put that right and tried to start her again, but with no auxillary belt.

No joy ? She just didnt want to go ?

Is there something in the ECU that would stop it firing if there was no alternator activity ?

I've got a replacement tensioner and will be fitting it tomorrow.