Car: 6N2 1.4 Petrol, 8 valve, 146,000 miles.  My level of experience: Genreal servicing - Oil, Filters etc. , Cam Belt and Water Pump, Rear Drum Brakes Complete Overhaul.

 

Hi all, 

 

Getting ready to do front brake overhaul: New Discs and Pads, Caliper Seals and all other rubber components, New Slider Sleeve Pins and Bolts, clean and paint calipers.

 

Going to TPS for Discs and Pads.  Not asked what caliper refurb kits they do or about price.  However came across a company called Frentech Braking: https://www.frentech-uk.co.uk/about-frentech/

They do caliper refurbishment kits and sell on ebay.  Wondered if anyone had experience with them?  If price is favourable at Frentech should I give them a go or just stick with TPS if they can supply everything?

 

Also I saw a video of a bloke doing calipers on a polo and he said that the slider pin bolts can strip?  Is that likely?  Don't want to damage a swivel hub otherwise I am screwed!!  Here is the video of you are interested (1min 50secs in): 

bv

 

Thanks in advance to everyone.

Edited 4 December, 20178 yr by cosaw

For the caliper overhaul kit go to http://biggred.co.uk/  you will get everything you need from them and fantastic service.

 

The slider pins again get them from the above, as yes they do have a habit of rounding out the hex head, so I would advise to have a spare set and replace them anyway.

 

For the discs try http://www.mtecbrakes.com/  used them on my Polos, Ibiza and on my current Octy, 

Awesome! Thanks nige, I will check the prices out.

Just a few further questions while I'm preping.

 

I'm a bit worried about clamping the flexi-hose.  Think I've got the exact tool but to me clamping a hose shut that's 17 years old just seems wrong.  Any thoughts from anyone - can I bung the end up somehow?  I will put polythene over the master cylinder reservoir cap - I did that for the rear breaks and nothing came out when I removed the cylinders on the drums.

 

Also, is there a washer between the hose union and the caliper that needs replacement?  Can't find mention of it anywhere?

 

Can you use the Cera Tec brake grease on rubber - the slider pins etc.  I know the red rubber grease is for the seal assembly and I know silicone grease normally comes with the slider pins but just wondered.

 

Thanks.

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by cosaw

agree i wouldnt clamp an old hose either , could disconect it at the hardline connection and pop a bleed nipple cover on the hardline flare ,  or dare i say if youre splashing on new parts then a pair of hoses certainly wouldnt hurt at all   

Cheers Steveo. Didn't see your post and just ordered parts!!  Still I'll bear in mind what you say.  Will have a look at hose prices.  Summer time it will be two years since I did the brake fluid so could do the hoses then.  Might just see how much the polythene trick works on the fronts like it did on the rears - I did put a cover over where I took the cylinders of the rears but nothing wanted to rush out before hand.

 

I'm pretty sure some silicone hose of the right size would block the banjo end well but don't know what the banjo bolt size is till I undo it.

 

Edit: Hopefully answered my own question with the diagram on this link.  Looks like M10 on both ends: http://www.mister-auto.co.uk/en/brake-hose/ate-83-7852-0377-3_g83_a00383.7852-0377.3.html

 

Think I've got some M12 silicone hose - will have a look.  Should pull through nicely.

Edited 7 December, 20178 yr by cosaw

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mini-Quick-Clamps-2-Pack-150mm-Woodwork-Clamping-G-Clamp-One-Handed-Operation/152506515950?hash=item238218c1ee:g:LLAAAOSwhQhY7M-B

 

what about one of those and a bit of rubber /plastic and clamp it over the banjo holes...you see those clamps in the poundland type stores

Spot on - great idea! I've got some of those clamps too. Cheers steveo - much appreciated as usual!

Had a look at the brakes today.  First stumbling block - as anticipated.  Slider pin bolts M6 Hex/Allen are just gonna round out by the feel of things.  I've put PlusGas on them at the thread end.  I have the Irwin Bolt Grippers but am chicken to use them.  Also am worried about stripping threads on the swivel hub assembly now.

 

If it weren't my everyday car I might press on with the Bolt Grippers - what to do???  Might have to go to the garage.

Before you use the Irwin grippers, hit the end of the pin with a hammer as the shock often is enough to break any corrosion on the threads

Thanks nige.  I tapped the hex sockets in with a rubber hammer but I'll hit the bolt head with something if I try again.  Should have left it on the axle stands but probably got to be out somewhere in the morning!

You need a metal hammer to give it the shock it needs a rubber mallet won't work

Yes I get that but thanks for confirming.  The rubber mallet was purely to put the hex bit home.  It's good to get the support of people off here - it helps me so much, especially with my confidence.  If I had plenty of money or this was my hobby car I'd be whacking away at every job and when things go wrong it wouldn't be a problem!!  Thanks guys.

agree on the metal hammer 

 

if you start them turning , wind it out a little then back in and so on , adding more plus gas with the hopes it will get on the threads , the idea with working it back n forth slowly is that it will clear any rust /bits on the thread rather than jam it and make it worse

 

if the allen head is a little worn you can hammer in a torx or spline bit too....i assume you have fresh bolts to use ?

Edited 18 December, 20178 yr by steveo3002

Yes, got fresh bolts steveo.  Thanks for the additional tips - all great stuff!!

P.S. Will one torx bit do 4 bolts or will it screw up the bit?  One of the four bolts actually is a torx - should have tried that one but didn't!!

if its a good quality one it might not mark it  , but id be prepaired to ruin the torx bit

 

hammering can also jar the rust and help it come undone

Cheers steveo.  I'll check the size and look to buy a few.

OK - had to go the torx bit route route - and it worked!!.  Thanks you guys - many times over!  Managed to strip brakes down today and so many questions.

 

Lot to read as usual, sorry, could do with some help though.

 

Original plan was to overhaul calipers - all rubbers and pistons if need be. Plan might have changed though!

 

Questions:

1) even if I leave it to a later date, is it worth a REFURB with this much corrosion?  If I can get calipers less than £40 a side (sending the old ones back). Check the first picture - thinking I won't get the dust seals to fit as just one point.

 

2) Slide pins didn't slide freely at all.  They slid gummy with fair force from a screwdriver to get them out.

 

3) What's the white stuff in the slide pin boots? Looks like ptfe or something?

 

4) Pic 3. There was a lump of rust on this rail and I think it caused one side to bind - the pads were worn wonky. I filed it down - will it be ok now?

 

5) Check the old slide pins (on new bolts) they're cracked all down the length, or is this manufacture? New ones don't have it!

 

Does my new plan sound reasonable?:

 

Clean calipers where needed for re-grease.

 

Fit new slide pins in old boots with silicone grease and new bolts.  Looks like a hassle to do the boots and may not be worth it if going for new calipers later.

 

Fit new discs and pads and hope the drivers side doesn't wear wonky again.

 

Renew calipers (rather than refurb) at a later date.

 

Many thanks to everyone!

 

 

Edited 28 December, 20178 yr by cosaw

They will clean up OK with a wire brush and a bit of elbow grease

 

Fitting the outer dust covers is the tricky one, but with a bit of patience it's not too bad, just make sure you clear the groove out in the caliper body that the seal fits in, use plenty of lube, insert the dust cover into the caliper and then push the piston through the dust cover or fit the cover to the piston, insert the piston and then with a blunt tool ease the dust cover into the groove in the caliper either method will work it's just a bit time consuming

 

Those pins have probably seized into the sleeves (the things that look like they have a crack in them) items # 2 & 3 in this https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/polo+derby+vento-ind/po/2001-240/6/615-615020/#2

 

The "white bits" are PTFE sleeves that the sleeves above slide in they are #16 in the same link

 

When you get the disc's off you will be able to file those area's the pads slide on with a file to get them smooth 

Many thanks nige for your reply.  I'll bear in mind all you say as usual.  I appreciate your time and you reading my posts.

 

Thing is, for now, seeing as I have nowhere good to work in this weather my question is this.  IF, the pistons wind back fine, am I ok to go with my new plan, as detailed above? Until, I can get good weather to do the seals/covers/pistons.  To me if the pistons work, and I do a good clean and grease with new slide pins and bolts then it should certainly be better than before.  Or is that an early route to badly worn discs and pads.  I am gentle on brakes - previous driving instructor.

 

I've not yet ordered a piston/seal kit cos I wanted to take a look first.  I got new bolts, boots and slide pins but that kit didn't come with the ptfe sleeves.  I have this: https://www.granvilleoil.com/prodInfo?pID=170 to lube the slides instead.  Would use CeraTec but still can't find official statement that it's ok for rubber - the granville stuff is. Replacing the rubber boots looks like a needless pain in the a*s for now.

 

I've had the discs off and that pic is after I've given the "runner bits" a real good wire and file (they are a lot better), don't really wanna take too much off.  There was a lump on that one in the pic that caused a bind and the wonky pads on that side I'm sure.

 

Many thanks again.

Edited 28 December, 20178 yr by cosaw

If the pistons go back with little effort then your plan would be OK,  are you fitting the new discs at this time ? if you do go down the refurbed replacement calipers in the future then I would also fit new pads again, the area where the pads slide on the hub unit just make sure you put a smear of copper grease on them to ensure the pads slide freely 

New discs yes - they're close to their limit.  That sounds like a plan.  I don't like to take short cuts but after all most garages would have just slapped the discs and pads straight on after cleaning and greasing what was needed.  I checked the old pads where I filed and they already slide better with no grease on them!!

 

Many thanks nige as always.  Your beer tokens are still accumulating (as are steveo's of course!) - I think you should have quite a few by now.  If you want me to make a donation to some charity then I'm happy to do that also!

Edited 28 December, 20178 yr by cosaw

Job mostly done for now.  Didn't replace the rubber boots on the slide pins (even though I have them) I was too concerned that it would be too tricky with the calipers on the car and I didn't want the fuss but do feel a bit guilty having not done it. Maybe in the spring with or without caliper overhaul.

 

The calipers wound back really nicely with a C style clamp and block of wood so was pleased about that and gave me more confidence to proceed.  New slide pins with silicone grease.  CeraTec on backs of pads and all other bits that needed it (swivel hub slide bits for the pads).

 

Yes I know I probably overdid the grease but I was rushing with the rain and I don't have steady hands at all.  I didn't get anything on pads and discs and hopefully all the water I've been through over the last few days hasn't washed it where it shouldn't be.  Car feels good - going gentle on the brakes but then I always do anyway.

 

Big thanks again to nige8021 and steeveo3002!!

 

Here's some pictures - P.S. the upturned buckets aided with holding the calipers up - not the car!  Thought it would make a good picture though!

Edited 6 January, 20188 yr by cosaw

Hey guys! Sort of reopening this thread.  May be a problem maybe just new pads bedding in.  Only thing I didn't do on the job was renew the rubber slide pin bushes.

 

Brakes seem to work great - no pulling to one side or anything like that, pedal is fine, master cylinder reservoir level is fine.

 

The issue: A little bit of a 'clunk' noise.  There is a very specific time this happens and so I have my own theories. Any point you switch from going forward to going in reverse - the first time you hit the break in reverse you get a small clunk (it seems just driver's side but maybe I'm not hearing the other side?). If you continue reversing and re-applying the brakes there seem to be no further clunks.  There is no clunk when you switch to going forward again - you have to go forward then reverse then first brake application, clunk!

 

I greased up the whole of the back of both pads well with the CeraTec and am thinking, as such, it could either be the outer pad shifting up, on first reverse brake application, or the piston pad rotating in the piston.  In each case I'm thinking the top of the pad backing plate hitting the top swivel hub guide rail as I noticed there was a small amount of space there.  Why it doesn't do it when you go back forward again I don't know (you think it would as the process reverses and resets.)

 

Little bit worried.  Everything tightened to torque and double checked at the time.  Best I can do at moment is to take the wheel off and have a gander. Check the disc is home on the hub with the grub screw correctly - that sorta thing.

 

I remember the driver's side caliper didn't go home first time at the top slide bolt (bottom already on) cos I hadn't slid the outer pad far enough towards the front of the caliper and it was obstructing somewhere.  I got some water-pump pliers and gently squeezed it further sideways/forward (with caliper still on disc) and home into where the backing plate locks into the top and bottom of the caliper outer side.  Then everything went back fine.  Hope it's just the pads and not the whole caliper moving hugely.

 

Thanks for your help as always.

 

 

Edited 17 January, 20188 yr by cosaw