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Mullen29

Mk2 polo breadvan, full space frame, 1043cc modified engine!

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Mullen29

Hi everyone,

This is the start to my project of which I hope to complete through this year/ start of next year! It is going to be raced with the hopes to be able to be one of the quickest cars out there, the video below is what I'm against from, 120 ish micras to high reving fiat  unos! its not gonna be the easiest to be able to get up there but I think I can accomplish it? it is going to be fully spaced framed with the only bits belonging to the car being the panels and engine, but even the engine is going to be modified: with the hopes of getting it to rev to 9500 rpm with out shitting a rod lol!  

 

 

Sunday 7th of January:

I bought the car and got it home and it is now sat out side, and will be sat there for another 2 weeks till I start to strip the remaining items off the shell and get ready to chop the floor and make a start to the space frame! (IF all goes to plan)

 

IMG_2347.thumb.JPG.2f95afef6d9c778a85918d86cf2b739b.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMG_2346.thumb.JPG.bfb1a268134c10cb60cb99cdaf9a30d6.JPG

 

IMG_2355.thumb.JPG.b85b6a657cd7acc5c19f4e4db7ae3f13.JPG

 

Edited by Mullen29
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MartinB

Welcome!

 

Exciting looking project. Do keep us posted with updates :)

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dvderlm

Did you see the. recent  rolling road thread? 1 litre using AEE (1.6) camshaft and big valved head from HZ donor on AAU bottom end.

 

 

 

 

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kiran_182

Top project, everyone will be on board with advice on how to get the best results

 

You never know Clubpolo may do some sponsorship for race season

Edited by kiran_182

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kwijibo_coupe

I know the engines in these are very well balanced, will happily rev to 8000+ rpm without throwing a rod. The trick will be getting it to make power up that high in the rev range.

I will be keeping an eye on this project. Looks interesting.

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mbusby993

Keeping an eye on this one! Looks like a good’un. :db:

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kiran_182
8 hours ago, kwijibo_coupe said:

I know the engines in these are very well balanced, will happily rev to 8000+ rpm without throwing a rod. The trick will be getting it to make power up that high in the rev range.

I will be keeping an eye on this project. Looks interesting.

 

My newman 270 has power to 8k but just noticed they do a 296 race cam

Edited by kiran_182

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Mullen29
11 hours ago, dvderlm said:

Did you see the. recent  rolling road thread? 1 litre using AEE (1.6) camshaft and big valved head from HZ donor on AAU bottom end.

 

 

 

 

Can u put the link in please 

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Mullen29

And yeah should be good, I’m just waiting for confirmation on the car to make sure I can 100% use it! 

Kiran I don’t think they will sponsor it? 

I done a fair bit of re search and the bottom end can be why ever u want as long as it’s under 1130 and made by vw? It’s gonna be one hell of a project but I think it won’t be far off the top runners! Especially after some development? 

I have been wanting to start it but with out conformation I’m having to wait! 

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kiran_182

Keeping the stroke and upping the comp gt pistons to 10.1 will help find a few more horses, 

 

GK pistons have a 75 bore and compression of 11.0:1 

 

Assuming all things are equal they should fit on your conrods and retain your 1043

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dvderlm

I've got GK pistons(not for sale :tongue:), but the valve lift is limited or you have to cut pockets for high lift long duration cam which lowers the CR.

 

Compression height is not standard and they are shorter than 1043 pistons, giving maybe 7:1 with a 1043 crank (Guess)

 

http://www.clubgti.com/archive/index.php/t-234927.html (wrongly says GK is hydraulic...nope, 8 bolt and solid lifters)

GK 42.65

HK 42.87

PY 40.17

1W 39.08

 

So what about flat pistons and an old HH head? Combustion chamber in the head can be skimmed or  0.7mm metal head gasket 

https://www.bar-tek-tuning.com/polo-g40-cylinderheadgasket

 

 and massive duration Schrick mechy cam like a 316.

 

Edited by dvderlm

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Mullen29

Sounds like a plan, below is the rule book! That way u can have a look and see which bits would suit? It’s a class 4!

http://www.national-autograss.co.uk/class-four.php

Edited by Mullen29

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kiran_182

Didn't know you had to get a licence from nasa

 

Quick read says you can use any factory engine fitted to that chassis as std when in production and de-stroking is allowed 

 

So you could destroke a gt to get 1130and 10.1 comp

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kiran_182

3f gt bare block £100 delivered, bit pricey

 

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/232531782786

 

3f had an imrpoved oir return over the aav which was one of the issuee with the original design

Edited by kiran_182

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Mullen29

So the 1043 bottom end would basically slot straight it a got block? Also what’s the advantage of the gt block? Bigger pistons? Stroke? 

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dvderlm

Same 75mm bore by 72mm stroke.

 

The oil passageway front left is larger in GT block (- probably in  most of the later hydraulic head engines). You'll be running high load hot so oil temp matters, and for that oil flow matters.

And the passageway is away from cylinder #1 water jacket - so overbore is less of a worry.

But 77mm overbore still looks practical maximum. 

 

GT block may have more ribbing for strength, but someone else will have to confirm that. It looks like other 75mm bore 1.272 / 1.043 blocks to me from the ebay photos..

 

The 1.043 pistons are taller than 1.272 pistons, because the same 122mm rod is used, with a smaller throw crank.

 

I think kiran_182's suggesting the 75mm GT pistons. With the 1.043 crank and custom conrods to get 10:1 or more static CR. Will be something like 1039cc if piston bowls are 1cc smaller than AAV?HZ 1 litre  pistons. Mate that to an HK mechanical head, fit larger 110.5mm long  valves and you can fit a moderate lift Schrick 292 cam that will do ~8300rpm. 

 

Or mate it to a GT hydraulic head, convert to solid lifters, titanium retainers and a catcams 300+ cam might get ~8500rpm. Not looked at wider valves for this because cost of hydro to solid. 

 

Or use custom flat top  pistons (Honda pm6 75mm high compression but not domed? maybe oversize, think  they have 29.5mm compression height)  with custom conrods and early mechanical head (heron head) and you can fit wider 104mm long valves and a Schrick camshaft with big lift and 320+ duration and hit >9000rpm.

 

The rev numbers are from playing with daipipes in wayback machine playing with valve lifts and cam overlaps. Might be more or less in practice.

 

Or custom crank ?

 

 

 

Edited by dvderlm
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dvderlm

Can't find the agressive ramp catcams rally cam that was over 300. Maybe I was dreaming, or they no longer do it.

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kiran_182

Also worth lighening the crank and fly and balancing them at the same time so it spins up quicker 

 

Newman do a 296 race cam for mech heads but unsure if itd need cutouts

 

Looks like club polo are gonna build a race car

 

I have a spare bare skimmed gt head

Edited by kiran_182
:p
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dvderlm

Neman? Newman, of course. That's the solid /mech lift conversion and 8000rpm with no other mods?

 

http://www.newman-cams.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/newman-cams_catalogue_2018.pdf

.page 58

 

VOLP/296/440 with 11.17mm lift. Depends on the followers, but that's more than usual 10.

 

newmanracecam.thumb.PNG.faaf5b69b5f22a01e8399dbf79c1ed4b.PNG

Edited by dvderlm

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Mullen29
3 hours ago, kiran_182 said:

Also worth lighening the crank and fly and balancing them at the same time so it spins up quicker 

 

Newman do a 296 race cam for mech heads but unsure if itd need cutouts

 

Looks like club polo are gonna build a race car

 

I have a spare bare skimmed gt head

In deed club polo is building a race car I’m just glad everyone is so helpful bought it not knowing wether it would be any good and it’s come to the point where it should be a pretty good contender! Thank you every one for you are advice links ect, I really do appreciate it!

thanks 

aaron 

Edited by Mullen29

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dvderlm

I plugged some numbers into daipipes, assuming the newman cam with 77mm bore and 60.5mm stroke with 10:1 compression and larger valves.

mullen29daipipes.thumb.PNG.812db9051f9b2ea4359bf801121297b2.PNG

Max torque of 87nm just below 7000rpm and 68kw =92hp at 12,000rpm!

 

 

Are there any long straights in autocross or do corners matter more?

You'll want a lsd (quaife), then comes the final drive/gear ratio calculations.

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Mullen29

It’s a oval circuit it’s more of a sprint than any thing, every track is on mud and consists of 4 corners 

2 hours ago, dvderlm said:

I plugged some numbers into daipipes, assuming the newman cam with 77mm bore and 60.5mm stroke with 10:1 compression and larger valves.

mullen29daipipes.thumb.PNG.812db9051f9b2ea4359bf801121297b2.PNG

Max torque of 87nm just below 7000rpm and 68kw =92hp at 12,000rpm!

 

 

Are there any long straights in autocross or do corners matter more?

You'll want a lsd (quaife), then comes the final drive/gear ratio calculations.

 

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dvderlm

With 75mm bore and 59mm stroke it still hits peak torque of ~81nm over 7000 if the inlet ports are wide enough (38-40mm) with that 296 cam.

There's very little final drive choice with 084/085 gearboxes.

Might have to adjust the tyre/wheel size to be in the 6000-8000 rpm range in mostly third and fourth gear. Guessing at 50-80mph from the video.

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Mullen29

I should of added we only use 1st and second through out the whole race

 

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