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Bevlesskeg

Wheel wobble on my mk2 breadvan

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Bevlesskeg

Morning guys,

I know the obvious causes of wheel wobble but I cannot seem to cure it on my 84 bready.

I have 14x6 alloys on with brand new tyres. They have all been balanced, tracking is correct, and all have spigots.

I originally thought i cured the problem by changing the front discs which had an obvious sticking spot, but it returned again shortly. I have now changed the pads AND discs a second time for better quality ones and nothings changed. It has full poly bushings all round, the track rods seem fine. I did find that the single small disc bolt did come loose but i have thread locked that in, and doesnt it get held tight by the wheel bolts anyway??

The only thing i havn't changed is front wheel bearings but i can't notice any play in there.

The wobble is between 55-65, felt through the steering wheel. It comes on noticeably when letting off the throttle too, but not when braking.

 

The only thing I know of that it could still be is the bearings, or a wheel is buckled? However i thought they would pick that up when balancing, and im pretty sure i have tried swapping the front wheels to back but cant remember.

 

Any ideas would be much appreciated. Cheers!

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caretakerplus

A wheel wobble at that speed is typical of an out-of-balance road wheel, you can probably 'drive through' this out of balance phase - if it were possible, the wobble would then reoccur between 110 - 130 mph 😊.

 

Things to check.

Tyre pressures - Have you tried 'experimenting' with slightly higher and slightly lower pressures|?

 

Do the fitting rings on the tyre sidewall's show concentric with the wheel rim? If not, then the tyre has not been correctly fitted. 

 

Is the wheel bucked? -With the wheel jacked up, place a heavy object (concrete block) close to the wheel. Hold a marker pen or stick of chalk firmly on the heavy object whilst an assistant rotates the wheel for you, bring the marker pen into contact with the rotating rim - The result should be an even contact for the full circumference of the wheel.

As it is not unknown for tyres to be manufactured 'out of true', repeat the above on the tyre sidewall - You could also carry out this test on the actual tyre tread. as again, tyres do sometimes manage to leave the factory, when they should have been rejected.

 

I don't quite follow you when you say that you have spigot mounted wheels, as the wheels were centred by the wheel bolts on your model, so unless you have spigot hubs, there is nothing for the wheel to centre on.

 

Did you have this problem before you fitted the new wheels/tyres?

 

No answer's there I am afraid, but there may be a few checks suggested that you haven't already tried.

 

Regards.

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kwijibo_coupe

Did you balance the wheels yourself or did you have a garage do it without you there to witness?

Many garages will often leave a bit of imbalance if it is under 10g required. Which would probably be fine on a modern car, but would certainly be felt on a mk2 Polo.

Also worth checking if you still have all the balance weights. The stick on ones do have a habit of falling off.

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steveo3002

you can get dud tyres , misshappen /lumps in them etc ....try swapping front to back and see if theres a change

 

are they proper wheels that fit right ?  or some randoms with a bit of dremeling and wobble bolts 

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Bevlesskeg

Ok, so i've kept thinking and things to mention are the last time i had it tracked, it was on 40mm lower springs all round and i had it set to 0.6 in on each side to see it would effect turn in, however i do remember having the wheel wobble before and after that. Its now on stock springs, with one coil cut out the fronts. What should the tracking be set too?.. i should probably look in my haynes...

 

I also read in another thread that less that 10 out on the wheel balancing machine will be noticable on a mk2 polo. I remember watching the guy do mine and get him to get it down to 5 or something, but i could go back and check them all again...

 

I feel like the wheel wobble has gotten worse over time recently, hard to tell but its now consistantly bad and it can feel violent in a few spots, 65,60, sometimes 50 even...

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Bevlesskeg

Also since were all here, the dash light with the battery icon is intermittently flickering on, sometimes fully on, especially at speeds and on the motorway. It happens a few times per drive. It has had a new battery, leads, plugs, points, condesor all recently. Is it the alternator or something? Belt slipping?

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dvderlm

You would hear belt slip. Alternator brush pack worn? Easy replacement in-place.

 

As for wobble, if all balanced - could a hub be worn out?

 

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kwijibo_coupe

Tracking wise these should be set to dead ahead. Adding any toe either way will just increase tyre wear.

 

Balancing wise, if they didn't get the wheels down to zero I'd take them back and get them to do it again. If they have used stick on weights on dirty wheels there is a chance some have fallen off.

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Bevlesskeg

Right, sounds good I will go and get it all checked perfectly. If it doesn’t work, where do I check the hub for wear? The cv joint?

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dvderlm

Further out than CV joint. There's a bearing held in place by two circlips inside the hub. Usually the bearing makes wub-wub noises over 40mph when it wears out, but I had one that went to wobbly about 5 years after I banged a central kerbstone.

Apparently one circlip had worn a wider groove. Hubnut stops wheel falling off.

 

Grab wheel at 12 and 6 o clock, see if it wobbles, then at 3 and 9 o'clock.

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Bevlesskeg

I will check all this when I can. I just went and got all the wheels balanced perfectly, they were up to 20 out on some, however wasn’t able to check the tracking. There was also the lower control arm bolt and hub bolt next to it was loose! I must have not tightened properly...

HOWEVER, now the wobble is much worse, about twice as bad and very violent now. It can be felt all the way faster and faster from about 45 to 70 where you can drive through it. 

 

does this sound like a tracking problem? Buckled wheel? 

 

I have noticed the lhs arch is sitting about 20mm higher... cannot see why.

Edited by Bevlesskeg

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dvderlm

All wheel bolts tight and brake disc surface clean?

 

I'm still thinking hub or hub bearing.

 

Tracking out means car pulls to one side and a tyre edge wears down far faster than it should.. You get a feathery feel to the rubber surface in one direction.

 

For the height diff: Are the suspension top mounts shagged? Does it knock over small road bumps.

If the bottom's been vibrating instead of moving up and down, that could cause hub/bearing problems. 

Edited by dvderlm

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Bevlesskeg

I will do a full tear down and test everything this week. Thanks for pointers everyone

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Bevlesskeg

Ok, managed to get some time today. Had the front up and tested everything.

 

No play atall at 3-9 on either wheel, at 12-6 there was a tiny tiny bit of play on the rhs wheel which was coming from the top of the shock. It was wobbling about around 1mm inside all the housing up top, visible from inside the engine bay. Tightening the bearing bolt didn’t effect it. I wedged a little piece of sheet metal in next to that bolt which stopped the play. 

 

I also checked for buckles, there is about 1mm of buckle on the front right, barely visible. Maybe similar on the front left but less so.

 

I still can’t workout why there is height difference as everything seems seated correctly. I’d rather not disassemble the suspension again...

 

I went for a drive, not on a smooth motorway but up to about 60-65 and although it did seem less obvious there wobble still persisted. The steering wheel wobbles about 2-3cm up and down (1-2cm each way from central). 

 

I will I’ll go and get the tracking done tomorrow, but honestly I’m running out of ideas.

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kwijibo_coupe

That play at the top of the shock when jacked up is normal, as the top mount drops and the shock is literally just help up by the top cap. So I wouldn't worry about that too much.

 

After reading your last replies I'd be checking the runout on the hubs if you can.

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Bevlesskeg

One thing that has been happening... Ive had my suspension out about 4 times in the last 6 months, and i think numerous times ive managed to slip the hub off the cv joint. I havn't paid enough attention to what i'm doing when slotting it back most times because its usually 5pm on a sunday and the suns going down and and now i have to get this stupid rubber boot back on with my oily hands 😄. Im pretty sure the wheel wobble has come on worse the more i work on the front setup... my point is, could that be a likely cockup?

Edited by Bevlesskeg

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fathands

I had a similar issue to what you’ve described. Mine was worse however when turning.  It did seem to get better/worse day by day. Tried changing pretty much everything including the wheel bearings. However finally resolved it when changing the bearings for a second time.

The first time I hadn’t used a press to fit the hub into the bearing and noticed that when I removed it the bearing race didn’t need grinding off the hub like every other time I’ve changed one. 

I can only guess there was a tiny bit of play in the hub/bearing connection that caused the wobble. 

Did you change the bearings shortly before the problem started?

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caretakerplus

As dvderlm says, if the tracking is 'out' then the tyres will feather in one direction - Try running your hand across the tread - it should feel the same in both directions.

If it feels more like you are stroking a dog, in one direction his hair will lay down, but in the other direction, his hair will be roughened up, then the tracking is out of adjustment.

 

Regards

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Bevlesskeg

I haven’t touched the bearings, however I can really feel nothing when moving the wheels 12-6 or 3-9. I haven’t checked for feathering but the guy at the garage is insistent on it not being the tracking, it was set by them originally not that long ago and it does still pull straight so I don’t think it’s out. I just wondered if it being set to 0.6 on either side was the issue and maybe worsened by putting higher springs back on.

 

im now wondering if maybe the brakes are sticking, they are fine when braking and the wobble isn’t worse but I wonder if they don’t disengage well after that. The pistons sticking i mean, since I didn’t really attempt to get them moving when changing the pads recently...

 

there was a large deposit on the disc a while back before changing it and it was catching very obviously when rotating the wheel by hand but you couldn’t feel anything while braking. It cured the problem for about 50 miles 

Edited by Bevlesskeg

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nige8021

Have you checked the discs for runout ? could be a warped disc then ?

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Bevlesskeg

Yeh I have check for runout and also have had brand new discs twice now. Let me try checking if the pistons are sticking and ill report back.

Edited by Bevlesskeg

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Bevlesskeg

It was the bloody spigot rings! they were almost 1mm too small on the wheel side and had not so obvious but noticable play. I turned up some alluminium ones that were a perfect fit and the problem seems to be solved... typical. thanks all for your help.

Edited by Bevlesskeg
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kwijibo_coupe

Although the job of spigot rings is to keep the wheel centred, in theory if you tighten up the bolts evenly in a criss-cross pattern they should centre themselves on the hub. 

Regardless I'm glad you've found the issue.

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steveo3002
On 27/03/2019 at 08:41, steveo3002 said:

are they proper wheels that fit right ?  or some randoms with a bit of dremeling and wobble bolts 

 

thought as much

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Bevlesskeg

They’re old but proper OZ wheels

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