Jump to content
Bevlesskeg

Best tips for handling setup

Recommended Posts

Bevlesskeg

Im loving my 84 1.3 polo, its great on the narrow backroads near me.. but I don't feel like I've got the best out of it handling wise.

 

I've got some 14/6j wheels on which started with 195/45 toyo proxies, and now some other 185/55s which ride much better. Also full poly bushings.

Sofar i've tried 60/40 H&R cup suspension all round, i found it too harsh and basically track oriented which wasnt working. Next up new stock shocks with kilen 40mm springs, not much better... it wasn't so low and softer but the dampening and lack of travel just didn't feel great. I'm now back to completely stock with a coil cut out the fronts. I've played with the tire pressures loads, currently at around 28.

As it is now feels the closest in terms of 'actually go around a countryside corner spiritedly' simply because this soft suspension absorbs some bumps, but not well enough!

When going round a corner the current problem is the front wheels really lean over and start to skip and chatter sideways. Theres obviously loads of body roll, and also it just handles the very very small bumps like crap, the things that make your boot thump... that kind of bump. Large bumps are great, its a very comfortable car but it rumbles along the road. I know its a light car but there must be some modern tricks to really help this things ride? The goal being a smooth ride with reduced body roll and better front end grip.

 

I'm trying to think of the best option for it...

PPP Stage 2 subframe with the arb blocks does sound like a good idea, definitley on the list to help the front end.

I can see H&R 35mm springs and a few other brands for sale too but all similar, a different pair of lowering springs again on stock shocks, is that the answer?

Air ride???

Better shocks? like what?

Can you guys give me your best advice on what road setups you've had and the best things to go for. Air ride with the subframe does sound like it could be dreamy but its a pricey decision.

 

Cheers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

ARB blocks make a big difference to corner skitter (skip chatter) at front.

 

Mk2 is already fairly solid at front so does not beg for subframe like mk2f.

 

I've done camber correction for the lowering, but you are at stock height.

 

Tower strut brace?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

G40 rear axle has an extra torsion bar.

 

I've not seen one up close. I think mine has a single strengthening flat bar welded on construction. I've no idea if it is just standard. Never worried about the rear much, if it feels like lifting sn inside rear wheel I'm cornering too fast.

I have 5mm spacers for wider track at the back, but that is to clear the rear springs (lowered 60/40) with 5.5J. Dunno if it helps, can't really remove them to try except with the skinny winter wheels 4.5J ET45 ?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kiran_182

As above, arb rear beam lower with wider wheels and poly bushes but importantly how you drive

 

Need to learn how to shift the cars weight using the throttle and when to do it. 

 

Also read the bumps and undulations and see how it will alter you center of gravity at that speed and how it will affect you cornering position and take a line to counter thay effect 

Edited by kiran_182

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kiran_182

Ive out driven an bmw in the van on a country road using those techniques. Should have seen his face at the petrol station later

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
steveo3002
39 minutes ago, dvderlm said:

G40 rear axle has an extra torsion bar.

 

I

 

 

gt and g40 has the arb fitted on rear beam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kiran_182

Your car doesnt have servo assist on fhe brakes so you need to learn cadence brakeing and do it all the time its the first reaction but also leave gaps according to stopping distance

 

When driving you can use the gears to slow the car rather than the brakes or throttle off to keep your speed 

 

All of these things are meant to be used within the limit and in dry conditions, smooth quick driving doesnt mean speeding 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

84 will have solid disks and post-stamp brake pads.

So VWII calipers and carriers and vented disks will improve brake fade when they've been worked really hard.

If you need to use them, rather than gears and anticipation.

 

What tyres are you using?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg

Good to hear the blocks help with the front chatter!

I'm defintley keen to get some vw11 calipers on at some point, braided lines too.

Im using general altimax sport  185/55/14 6j .

 

1. Does the PPP subframe come with an uprated ARB?

 

2. Does this g40 rear arb really effect the car then? how so?

 

3. Im not against the idea of changing the suspension again, any recommendations for springs/shocks? Gas shocks? what about g40 springs?

Edited by Bevlesskeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
steveo3002
5 hours ago, Bevlesskeg said:

 

 

1. Does the PPP subframe come with an uprated ARB?

 

2. Does this g40 rear arb really effect the car then? how so?

 

1.no it relies on hard springs for the stage 3 ...the other uses the stock arb

 

2. the clue is in the name its an anti roll bar ...the car would sit flatter during a corner than with out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

Stage2 subframe doesn't.

 

I had a brand new lhd GT coupe(1987?) on standard shocks and 5.5J Hockenheims. It was no noticeable difference handling to a Formel E hatchback on 4.5J - except the engine.

Dunno whether it had rear ARB.

 

Better than a 19? year old SP on knackered shocks. My lowering kit - which I can't believe has lasted this long given the surrounding potholes and speed bumps -

is bouncy and unforgiving, but not harsh.

 

But you won't corner like a mental Saxo in a car park at night.

 

The ARB blocks made the most improvement. 

 

 

Altimax look to be not as good as Toyo Proxes or Bridgestone Turanza

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Summer-53-Tyre-Braking-Shootout.htm

Only braking test, presumably straight line wet and dry, slightly bigger tyre size. 

 

 

Go stage3 subframe?

Edited by dvderlm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg

Is a rear ARB potentially quite important (compared to front)? I don't know much about the effect of rear body roll. I'm keen to look down all routes of reducing roll because I know thats going to give me best effect with this mcpherson setup.

 

Stage 3 subframe would be cool, i know how good double wishbone suspension can feel, i had it on my previous merc but im not really up for going stiff on the springs to compensate! Does anyone sell uprated front roll bars for these? Could i get one made?

 

Regarding tires these altimax seem great, no worse than the proxes i had on before. I cant get proxes in the correct size unfortunately.

 

PPP makes the simple front lower strut brace for a mk3, could i just make myself one of those?

 

Edited by Bevlesskeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg
On 27/04/2019 at 08:18, dvderlm said:

Tower strut brace?

Will this have a significant effect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg

image.png.1ae658aad30e822ac2ac5ae693411ac5.png

 

I found this of the GT rear arb and more. I think i could probably fashion up a brace like this on my rear beam, maybe permanently welded in? Worth doing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
steveo3002

all depends what you want...a car that handles amazing on a smooth racing track wont be able to keep up with a standard car on a rough bumpy back road 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm
37 minutes ago, Bevlesskeg said:

Will this have a significant effect?

Sorry, never used a tower brace.

If the slalom guys use them, then yes, otherwise it's just weight but looks good.

 

Need an engine bay shot from this lot. There's a blue mk1 Polo (Kalsch Sls)lifting an inside rear wheel.

https://www.matthiasgehrickephoto.de/Vessel/Cars/Slalom-Racing/i-D5zfj22

Edited by dvderlm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

The stainless bits are clearly new, but is the Neuspeed bar also aftermarket for the original GT/G40 bar?

 

Very different from the Petzold sketch of GT rear axle in So Wird's Gemacht book, according to which. I must have had one on my GT. 

I could corner faster than Kadetts and Mercs, but I always thought that was because they were well behaved Germans driving  sensibly

except on the Autobahn. Might not have been my skills but the GT rear beam. 

 

If you can weld the mounting points, get a rear ARB and so long as the AR bar can flex, as one wheel pushes up the other pushes down

it should work. 

 

The diagonal stainless braces keep wheels from flexing outwards/inwards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
steveo3002

Image result for polo g40 rear beam

 

you can see the oem arb there...like a bar welded in

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

That matches the Petzold sketch. Tell-tale extra holes on the arms.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dvderlm

Oh almost forgot, there's a steering rack damper too. Helps keep a good line in hard long corner with undulations.

Different bracket on the rack. 

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-OEM-VW-G40-Lenkungsdampfer-Polo-86c-Stabilus-871425021A-Steering-Damper/172397638159

 

Edited by dvderlm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
PHIL SWARBRICK

There used to be kits to "piggy back" shafts clamped solidly to the existing ARB to effectively stiffen it. Are they considered an option or don't they work well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg
9 hours ago, steveo3002 said:

Image result for polo g40 rear beam

 

you can see the oem arb there...like a bar welded in

This is interesting so is it just an extra horizontal bar to add some torsion right?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg
2 hours ago, PHIL SWARBRICK said:

There used to be kits to "piggy back" shafts clamped solidly to the existing ARB to effectively stiffen it. Are they considered an option or don't they work well?

This make sense, I’ll have a dig 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bevlesskeg
9 hours ago, dvderlm said:

Oh almost forgot, there's a steering rack damper too. Helps keep a good line in hard long corner with undulations.

Different bracket on the rack. 

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Original-OEM-VW-G40-Lenkungsdampfer-Polo-86c-Stabilus-871425021A-Steering-Damper/172397638159

 

 

Do you think this would have some effect on how the steering wheel reacts to small bumps? Pretty cool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
kiran_182

Stage 3 frame is for the track really, the rose jointed wishbone conversion bars tend to fail with road use

 

Steering damper does help steady the wheel but makes it a shade less precise, i prefered the car without 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue. Terms of Use Privacy Policy Guidelines