Hi,

I was wondering if anyone has tried fitting an 020 4 speed to the mk2?
I am trying to avoid getting one and leaving disappointed.

In terms of pictures that I find, I think it could work, because the side mount about the same, but the lower mount might need fabrication.

I am looking into this as 02* gearboxes are slightly stronger and because it would ease up looking for a 16v engine, because I could buy one from a MK4 Golf, or similar, which we have lots of.
Driveshafts could be an issue as well

I'm sure someone will have tried this before, the things that spring to mind would be the gearchange linkage, clutch operation as the 02* are hydraulic, an adapter plate between the Mk2 engine and the gearbox as you have said the driveshafts and the mounting

13 minutes ago, nige8021 said:

I'm sure someone will have tried this before, the things that spring to mind would be the gearchange linkage, clutch operation as the 02* are hydraulic, an adapter plate between the Mk2 engine and the gearbox as you have said the driveshafts and the mounting

I would be pairing it to an either MK4 Golf 1.6 16v as mentioned before, or maybe go for the extra compression ratio and go for the 1.6 FSI from an A2, as it's one of the only FSI small blocks to have the oil filter in the good old position, but that would add a DBW, if I stay with the stock managment. But kinda seems too much headache for only a slight potential gain, but I like doing interesting stuff

As far as I know, there is a single rod going from the shifter to the linkage as well, just that the linkage itself is quite a bit more complex, would need to compare how much the shifter rod rotates and goes forwards/backwards.
Some pictures of 020 4 speed suggest that the clutch was also cable operated.

 

I already swapped a 1.6 8V in, but I'm only partly satisfied, just because I went from a 1.05. Pulls alright, but got my expectations high from my 24V VR6 haha
If only we had more GTI's parting out in the upper part of europe

Edited 21 June, 20197 yr by GatisGirdenis

I've got an 02J in my Octavia and that is hydraulic clutch and the 02* in the 6N2 1.4TDi is also Hydraulic, the shift changes are twin cables and not the same as the later 085 gearboxes as the shift mechanism is on the top of the 02* so that would mean a complete refit of the gearchange setup from the lever to the gearbox and that might need some fabrication to accept the different gearlever box assembly ?

1 minute ago, nige8021 said:

I've got an 02J in my Octavia and that is hydraulic clutch and the 02* in the 6N2 1.4TDi is also Hydraulic, the shift changes are twin cables and not the same as the later 085 gearboxes as the shift mechanism is on the top of the 02* so that would mean a complete refit of the gearchange setup from the lever to the gearbox and that might need some fabrication to accept the different gearlever box assembly ?

These are the newer gearboxes, yes, I have one in my MK4 Golf, but I'm talking about this gearbox specifically:

 

I think it's from an older Golf, MK1/MK2, not sure specifically, but as you can see that the side mount holes seem very similarly located, as well as it has a cable clutch and mechanical shifter linkage.

Ah OK I thought you were talking about the newer version, why would you want to fit an old 4 speed that's not much better than the one you already have fitted ?  the MK4 golf is the same series of 02* that I have in my Octy and they while not bullet proof they are twice as strong as the 5 speed 085 series as fitted in the Polo 96-2001 

3 minutes ago, nige8021 said:

Ah OK I thought you were talking about the newer version, why would you want to fit an old 4 speed that's not much better than the one you already have fitted ?  the MK4 golf is the same series of 02* that I have in my Octy and they while not bullet proof they are twice as strong as the 5 speed 085 series as fitted in the Polo 96-2001 

I'm worried about the 5 speed fitting width wise, as well as the before mentioned hydro clutch and cable shifter and mounts, this box seems easier to fit. Also LSDs are cheaper than the 085s 😄

My 085 5 speed is giving out as well, has started whining in most gears lately, oil level is fine, but there is some driveshaft flange play which points to differential bearings, I think?

Edited 21 June, 20197 yr by GatisGirdenis

I checked out the flanges, the 020 seems to have 94mm diameter, while the 085 has 92mm, but the online parts store claims that the bolts are spaced out the same amount which means that the joint has to be able to bolt to it, even if it doesn't, the specifications suggest that I can just swap out the ends to the MK1 ones. If the flanges on the gearbox are spaced apart the same amount as the 085 and placed very similarly, it should be straight forward in terms of the shafts, but it probably isnt so. I guess I'm going to try to find a cheap 4 speed that someone wants to get rid of

The mk2f has a cut out in the inner wing for 5 speed gearbox end plate, while mk2 4 speed wing is flat, so you can make a bit more width with no structural compromise.

 

Have you seen this in @Yoof 's engine bay. It was a std Polo once upon a time. Probably sold, but give some you idea.  

https://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12998.0

 

But that 02j does need chassis mods

https://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1160.375

 

Edited 22 June, 20197 yr by dvderlm

4 hours ago, dvderlm said:

The mk2f has a cut out in the inner wing for 5 speed gearbox end plate, while mk2 4 speed wing is flat, so you can make a bit more width with no structural compromise.

 

Have you seen this in @Yoof 's engine bay. It was a std Polo once upon a time. Probably sold, but give some you idea.  

https://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=12998.0

 

But that 02j does need chassis mods

https://www.polog40.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1160.375

 

That's quite a bit of info, thanks.

Seems like a bit of a headache. If I swapped my 8V for a 16V smallblock which was fitted with the 02J gearbox (that is - A2, MK4 Golf, as far as I know), then that would eliminate the need of the adapter plate and flywheel spacer. Now if only the distance between the bellhousing and the two mounting holes on the 020 would be close to the 085, it would ease things up quite a bit.

I also checked out the gearing for the box and it seems fine - a lot better than the original 1.05 box. Gear switches at redline would be at around 35mph, 65mph, 80mph and the top speed of around 120mph for the 4 speed. 5 speeds are very similar in terms of those 4 gears, except they add a 5th gear which is longer. My current box with the 1.6 is very useless, as 1st is super short and loses time if you use it, but 2nd is a bit too long and it bogs down if I launch from about 5krpm (idk, my tacho isnt working haha). In daily driving I never use 1st

I found this for the 020 box as well which I am in need of as my inner tyre spins up very easily even at low angles

https://peloquins.com/80-kit/

Edited 22 June, 20197 yr by GatisGirdenis

The peloquins are interesting.

 

Engine and gearbox already matching is easier for sure if it fits the bay.

 

One thought.

The 020 box's starter motor will be close to fan shroud and motor, which I imagine a slimline fan may sort.
Depends how much engine can rock. Mk1 and mk2 Golf's have a central front mount which often give up if you add significant power. 

Vibratechnics used to do uprated Golf mount. Can even fit 210mm clutch in the 020. I think it has a different order of pressure/friction/flywheel than 085 from reading Haynes Golf. 

2 minutes ago, dvderlm said:

The peloquins are interesting.

 

Engine and gearbox already matching is easier for sure if it fits the bay.

 

One thought.

The 020 box's starter motor will be close to fan shroud and motor, which I imagine a slimline fan may sort.
Depends how much engine can rock. Mk1 and mk2 Golf's have a central front mount which often give up if you add significant power. 

Vibratechnics used to do uprated Golf mount. Can even fit 210mm clutch in the 020. I think it has a different order of pressure/friction/flywheel than 085 from reading Haynes Golf. 

The starter motor might be close to the fan, yes, but there are a few ways around it.

Onequestion while I'm at it - are there any VAG radiators that fit straight in the bay but are full width / not be offset to one side by quite a bit? I'm looking into bigger radiators, but am trying to avoid fabrication as much as possible.

 

I would be trying to use the stock mount locations and try to mount the lower mount on the differential housing somewhere (I've seen some OEM mount for either an 02A or 020 that was mounted similarly as the MK2F 085 mount) as I think it's a better design.

020 can handle a bigger clutch, yes, and the flywheel needs changing to the bigger part as well. Flywheel for the primary reason of the starter ring being on the wrong side as the 020 has the starter on the front and to the box side, unlike 085

Radiators. Not full width, but there are 528mm wide by 322mm high standard rads, eg Derby and Santana.

Either 32mm deep such as Nissens 651111.  Or 25mm ? deep for early Passat

1 hour ago, dvderlm said:

Radiators. Not full width, but there are 528mm wide by 322mm high standard rads, eg Derby and Santana.

Either 32mm deep such as Nissens 651111.  Or 25mm ? deep for early Passat

The santana one is 23mm thick right?

Now I have a 380 by 322 by 32mm one, so might be an improvement in the surface area

yes there is 23mm deep one for 1.6D Santana

eg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Radiator-for-VW-Santana-1-6-81-84-Choice2-2-Diesel-32b-CR-JK-Saloon-54-DENSO/10027530207

 

And some listings say 34mm deep for the GK engine like I have.

 

Found a 700mm wide 320mm height by 34mm deep

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Radiator-VW-PASSAT-32b-Santana-32-B-Cooler-VW-2037-Ava-040460n/2281090400 

Edited 22 June, 20197 yr by dvderlm

10 minutes ago, dvderlm said:

yes there is 23mm deep one for 1.6D Santana

eg

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Radiator-for-VW-Santana-1-6-81-84-Choice2-2-Diesel-32b-CR-JK-Saloon-54-DENSO/10027530207

 

And some listings say 34mm deep for the GK engine like I have.

 

Found a 700mm wide 320mm height by 34mm deep

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Radiator-VW-PASSAT-32b-Santana-32-B-Cooler-VW-2037-Ava-040460n/2281090400 

Seems like there would be a tappable hole for one as well, need to measure it. I can get one for 25€ locally, not sure of the brand quality, but for that price, I could change it out once in a while

https://www.buycarparts.co.uk/aks-dasis/1719607

looks very cheap here too.

Just now, dvderlm said:

https://www.buycarparts.co.uk/aks-dasis/1719607

looks very cheap here too.

That's the exact same one

The 1.4 diesel radiator is pretty big, thicker than a petrol one, and was still fairly easy to find last time I looked into it. 

29 minutes ago, Yeti said:

The 1.4 diesel radiator is pretty big, thicker than a petrol one, and was still fairly easy to find last time I looked into it. 

It is decently sized, as far as I find, it's the 525x322x32mm one, which was mentioned by @dvderlm

But I am very interested in the 700mm now, and it's cheap as well

Trying to think if there any downsides to bigger rad. Might make no difference  with 1.6 engine but rad and starter on the 020 box is more weight in front of wheels. Suppose a Golf GTI had no problems with that. Maybe there's more downforce to keep the traction and that outweighs the extra mass to guide around corners. Actually the G-lader and intercooler is mass in front of the wheels, so it can't be bad - even if it is a bolt-on, right.

 

Pump has a bit more work do more resistance through tiny passages  -  so there's increased parasitic loss. Not noticeable though, like 0.5hp at full power? 

Bigger rad is probably similar weight as airflow-cooled oil-cooler and pipes.

 

The G40 boys can't use wide rad as the G is in the way. 80c thermostat?

10 minutes ago, dvderlm said:

Trying to think if there any downsides to bigger rad. Might make no difference  with 1.6 engine but rad and starter on the 020 box is more weight in front of wheels. Suppose a Golf GTI had no problems with that. Maybe there's more downforce to keep the traction and that outweighs the extra mass to guide around corners. Actually the G-lader and intercooler is mass in front of the wheels, so it can't be bad - even if it is a bolt-on, right.

 

Pump has a bit more work do more resistance through tiny passages  -  so there's increased parasitic loss. Not noticeable though, like 0.5hp at full power? 

Bigger rad is probably similar weight as airflow-cooled oil-cooler and pipes.

 

The G40 boys can't use wide rad as the G is in the way. 80c thermostat?

The rad itself weighs claimed 3.5kg which is nothing, with the coolant filled it might weigh more. I am thinking about moving the generator to the back of the engine as well, and the battery to boot. If I would have to prepare for an actual 1600cc category for a rally, I would have to increase the weight anyways as it possibly wouldn't meet the minimum requirements.

The radiator weight might be possible to offset with a stainless header.

I already have the 80c thermostat, but my fan doesn't kick on till it shows about 110°c on the dash. Have changed the switch, the pump, got a fresh radiator, the sensors, so i dont know what's up with that.

 

Also, I would love to switch to an electric water pump, but would have to create my own system to power it on different variables and have different modes. I could use the newer bmw pumps and code an arduino or a raspberry to power it. Thought behind it - for daily driving I could run it at lower constant power and possibly get more mpg's, as the bmw pump might be more efficient and I've heard about belt drive being more inefficient than electric driven pumps. Also, can place the pump almost anywhere you want, and if you do a dragrace, you can keep it at full power while you coast to the start line and can program it to run for a minute or two after engine switch off

Edited 23 June, 20197 yr by GatisGirdenis

Radiator fan switch turns on at 84 or 95 or both for 2 speed fan

 

6 minutes ago, dvderlm said:

Radiator fan switch turns on at 84 or 95 or both for 2 speed fan

 

Yeah, my fan switches on though, but at high temp. It was with the oem one and the same exact behaviour with the replacement (new, but was not a high grade).

Edit: and the same exact behaviour with the 1.6 as 1.05. and same exact between two gauges - i changed my clock one to a tacho one

Edited 23 June, 20197 yr by GatisGirdenis

Fan comes on at high thermostat housing temp - but the switch is  95 coolant temp half way down the rad.  I'll try and measure the block temp when my fan comes on, there are no numbers on my dash temperature  light but needle usually sits just to left of the warning LED - it's a bit to right of that, when it activates, which is not very often. Stop/start queueing after fast motorway journey.