just thought i might ask if anyone has had a big prob with oversteer on the mk4 in the wet it seems you dont need to be going very fast at all for the back end to come round when you lift off.

mines set up with spax adjustables set to soft as they go btw

I've had mine losing rear end grip in the wet a few times, I've only had mine a week!

your front camber could be setup wrong, I had that on mine till I had it resetup

camber has allready been done.

the car dosent seem to have any anti roll bars though would it have had them from the factory.

would it help if i was to fit arb's or strut braces?

camber has allready been done.

the car dosent seem to have any anti roll bars though would it have had them from the factory.

would it help if i was to fit arb's or strut braces?

you sure it's set right though? Polo's normally understeer, not oversteer. Check the tyre pressure's and I have no arb's or strut braces and mines fine. Seems strange this.

Over steer when you lift off....

...familiar with the term lift off oversteer?

What sort of tyres are you running?

And the problem is..?

Sounds to me like you're provoking lift-off oversteer - if you apply braking to the front axle only,during cornering,the laws of physics are pushing the mass of the car into tripping over its front axle.

Sounds nicely set-up to me - nothing worse than understeer.

polos seem to be really good for lift off oversteer, mk3s more so than mk4s from my experience. once your used to it you'll be able to make the most out of it!!

Mine understeers like a bitch in the wet. Very badly set up imo.

the car dosent seem to have any anti roll bars though would it have had them from the factory.

What size engine is your mk4?

The 1L - 1.4L did not come with them

The 1.6L comes with a front one

the 1.4 16v has a front one and some also have a rear one

mines a 1.4cl 98, I'm sure I have one on the front? Or is this a totally different thing I'm lookin at.

I don't know Tim.

As far as i know tho yours should not have one.

Do you have a bar that runs from one side of your car from the subframe/wish bone area along up over the exhaust to the other side?

If you not sure what your looking for crab a pic and posted it up

Ok I'll grab a pic. :), A nifty thing i saw under me car though is the chassis strengtheners(goes across exhaust gap). Doubt they actually work as chassis strengtherners. Would be a good thing to look into, to stop chassis flex.

People say that 205s are the ultimate car for lift off oversteer? Obviously they haven't backed off going round a tight 2nd gear bend in a Mk3 Polo in the wet then!

That's interesting regarding the smaller engined Mk4s not even having a front ARB...

People say that 205s are the ultimate car for lift off oversteer? Obviously they haven't backed off going round a tight 2nd gear bend in a Mk3 Polo in the wet then!

205's and cars like the Williams Clio all like to steer from the rear.

You shouldn't be lifting off mid-corner during normal driving any way. It unsettles the weight ballance of the car. Basic rule of the thumb is you should achieve a constant speed by lightly increasing pressure on the throttle as you take a corner. This keeps the car ballanced. Accelerating or lifting off/braking will unsettle this ballance and increase the chance of the car loosing traction.

Yes but it's fun.

Oversteer...keep it on the track...

...or big round abouts.

Mine understeers like a bitch in the wet. Very badly set up imo.

Stiff coilies?

Too stiff and its shit in the wet

Reckon i could hustle the big heavy soft sprung golf faster in the wet than my polo

Yes but it's fun.

haha,

how i wish i still lived in the countryside, good old country roads, i never get to go over 30 any more without breaking the law, damn cities

I'm on my second 97 1.6 glx, i've never felt too confident in the wet, even though i've never driven on anything but 70 quid a corner michelins! I once span out on a roundabout in the wet thanks to what must have been lift off oversteer, although i'm really not certain what happened, it happened very very quickly, no chance for any attempt at correcting! I feel like understeer is often only a few more miles an hour away in the wet. Strangely i find it quite predictable and tame in the dry! My cars absolutley standard, been pondering lowering it for a while.....

Edited 20 August, 200719 yr by welovegypos

if you apply braking to the front axle only,during cornering,the laws of physics are pushing the mass of the car into tripping over its front axle.

abslolute rubbish. if you bias the brakes to the front and brake mid corner, you will understeer. the only way braking in a corner can make you oversteer is if the bias is set to the rear, think of how doing a handbrake turn works and its obvious.

You think I'm talking about brakes? Lol! Pinch,you should know better - by braking on the front axle only,I'm talking about engine braking. Though sudden braking with the rear brakes disconnected would have a similar effect by throwing the back end over its outer shoulder. That is,as long as the brakes kept traction - if they skid at all,then of course,it'd go straight into understeer and your comments would come into reality. But engine braking is like ABS,and the front tyres are more inclined to outgrip the now-lightened back axle.

I can swing the back axle around far enough to opposite-lock the steering at just 20mph if i provoke it - Yet it'll hold a roundabout at 90mph if i focus.

I have full control over its oversteer/understeer and outright grip entirely by the throttle. My example is set up properly,but the laws of physics have a similar effect to varying degrees on any front-driver. Lift off mid corner,and the engine braking will tuck the front end in,and provoke the back axle into 'stepping round' the front. At least,this is where the centrifugal forces are going - but the front axle is usually set up to understeer - to eliminate excessive force on the back axle.

your own fault. you should have posted clearly in the first place.

you cannot make a car oversteer by using front brakes only, however you put it. weather you lock up or not makes no odds, braking the front end will push it wide!

obviously, you are a superior driver, and your setup is perfect. you'd think some of us on here have never lived

^^Before the tantrum ending,there was a point in that post - that you were not reading my post properly. And not for the first time,is it..

But before i choose to read you a certain way,as you do me,i'll admit i can see why you thought that way. Though the only way I've ever managed to brake on the front axle only,in a front driver,has been by engine braking - but I've really not lived twice the driving life of everyone else so if you know of a road legal car that has a friction brake on the front only,then i stand corrected..

thats hardly the point. you're original post is misleading, by saying "braking the front axel only" it reads as if you are going on about using "a friction brake on the front axel only". part of the reason i was like wtf was because i was trying to work out how you broke the front axel on its own to get oversteer! having said that, normally biased brakes are biased about 70/30 to the front if not more, so braking would still cause you to be off in a straight line. i'd hardly say engine braking was "braking the front axel" in a literal sense, yes you are slowing the front end of the car using engine braking but your not pysically slowing the wheels with a mechanical device, its more to do with taking torque away, decelerating the front wheels through the drive train causing the nose to grip and create a change in momentum.

lift off oversteer is all very well and good, but i dont think you should be able to just lift mid corner and the back end step round that fast, mine wont just lift off oversteer, you have to physically throw and armful of lock in while lifting to get the momentum change. if you were gonna do it properly, you'd learn to scandanavian flick, which is the proper way to cause a change in momentum

i am talking about lift off oversteer but it does it at verry low speed and dosent need much provoking if i was to provoke it i dont think youn would be able to catch it you would be destined for a pirouette

ice skater stylee.

i do kno you shudnt lift off but as i said above it does it at such low speed and so quickley its uncontrollable is there anything that will lessen the effect to make it more controllable.

i run kumho ku31 tyres all round and have had them on loads of cars before and found them very grippy so dont think that is the issue.