Hi,

I know its not a polo, but I got told to head over here!

First off, since I am new here, I am 17 from near Wadebridge in Cornwall. I have just passed my test and will be driving my marine blue mk1 golf 1.3 around 45 miles a day as my drive to college and back. So far, she is only returning about 25 to the gallon Max! For sure the engine is not running right, but I have already bought all new ignition bits and tried 2 Weber 34 ich carbs and the original solex Pict 34-5. Not putting anymore time and money into carbs! Got told to buy a new carb, but that is 200 quid!

So now looking at engine conversions/ mpi conversion for my original engine. Choices that I am looking at

Mk3 GT 3f 75bhp

mk3 Nz 1.3 60bhp??

6n(2) aex/apq 60bhp

Golf 3 abd with GT fuelling.

I have heard that the 6n engine is a hassle to fit due to mounts. Is this correct?

Which is most likely to return the best economy?

I also looked into putting 3f GT fuelling on my 1.3 mech head, but was told it would be a waste of time!

May also put a 5 speed box in whilst I am at it.

Any opinions and advice would be awesome!

Thanks,

Rob

25 mpg Are you sure petrol is reaching the engine?

second hand weber 34dmtl and service kit and adapter plate.

but not carbs...

I'd say Mpi GT and 8p gearbox. perhaps with abd for displacement 1.4 to match golf weight.

that is eight pee gearbox not smiley on crack

Checked for fuel leaks?

Thanks for the replies. I have replaced all the rubber fuel lines and flushed the tank so I think I would have seen a leak, but I'll check again!

I will definitely ask the insurance about a GT conversion! Not sure they will be too happy. They are fine with economy mods, but the GT is 25hp+ over the 1.1 that used to be in there!

A lad from my area has a 1.6 disel lump in his mk1

1.6 diesel 4+e is an economy mod.

http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/50-Volkswagen/452-Golf.html?fueltype=1&constyear_e=1985&power_e=60&minkm=2000&powerunit=2

But 25mpg has to be a leak.

No one on spritmonitor gets 11litres per 100km with upto 60bhp petrol Golf.

Does it smell of petrol?

Are you using cloth overbraided rubber pipes? That can hide a leak, especially if you've used wrong size pipe and jubilee clips.

Really should be 5.6mm pipe post pump.

There are even reports that ethanol in petrol perishes pipes faster.

Mk2 Golf's have plastic tanks so unlike Polo's do not suffer rusty porous filler neck, Not sure about Mk1 Golfs.

What about at the tank feed and return?

At inline filter or at pump?

If not leak then the mixture may be way too rich, or engine worn.

How sooty is the exhaust tail pipe

How sooty are the spark plugs?

Any brakes dragging?

How clean is the airtfilter?

Another thought. Is your 25mpg from cold and doing short journeys.

That's probably right magnitude.

Or is that 22.5miles morning then 22.5 miles evening with little queueing and gentle driving.

My golf 1.8 turbo does 28mpg when booting it, and about 35mpg normal driving.

You sure the car hasn't got a misfire?

Replaced all fuel lines with the thick rubber reinforced type and new correct stainless clips not long back, along with air filter and fuel filter. I put a fuel filter on the return too, because I cleaned the lines and didnt want any crap going back into the tank!

New plugs to haynes spec. Ill check how sooty they are. its about 20 miles there and 20 miles back, odd bit of queuing ect, takes 35-45 minutes each way.

Fair bit of crap in the exhaust, but what exhaust doesnt have a bit of soot! I'll check the plugs and get some pics.

The tank is a metal one, its clean with no rust.

There are no obvious strong smells of petrol, except when choked.

I have replaced the rear shoes, but don't think they are dragging. They are not crazy hot or anything after a drive, but I'll jack it up and check.

It does misfire occasionally, but i have replaced plugs, cap, coil and leads, and it has a pertronix electronic ignition module so there shouldnt be any issues there. The vacuum and mechanical advance both work according to a mechanic, and I checked them too, and the advance seems fine. I think it is purely a fueling issue.

As you can see, I have already spent a fair bit of time on this engine, and if I am going to have to chuck any more at it, i may as well get a gt or nz motor instead, as it isn't the standard engine anyway (1.3 instead of 1.1)

Thanks for all the replies and advice!

Oh and something I should add- I am running 15x7 wheels with 195 tires. Should this make much difference?

Cheers!

Replaced all fuel lines with the thick rubber reinforced type and new correct stainless clips not long back, along with air filter and fuel filter. I put a fuel filter on the return too, because I cleaned the lines and didnt want any crap going back into the tank!

New plugs to haynes spec. Ill check how sooty they are. its about 20 miles there and 20 miles back, odd bit of queuing ect, takes 35-45 minutes each way.

Fair bit of crap in the exhaust, but what exhaust doesnt have a bit of soot! I'll check the plugs and get some pics.

The tank is a metal one, its clean with no rust.

There are no obvious strong smells of petrol, except when choked.

I have replaced the rear shoes, but don't think they are dragging. They are not crazy hot or anything after a drive, but I'll jack it up and check.

It does misfire occasionally, but i have replaced plugs, cap, coil and leads, and it has a pertronix electronic ignition module so there shouldnt be any issues there. The vacuum and mechanical advance both work according to a mechanic, and I checked them too, and the advance seems fine. I think it is purely a fueling issue.

As you can see, I have already spent a fair bit of time on this engine, and if I am going to have to chuck any more at it, i may as well get a gt or nz motor instead, as it isn't the standard engine anyway (1.3 instead of 1.1)

Thanks for all the replies and advice!

Oh and something I should add- I am running 15x7 wheels with 195 tires. Should this make much difference?

Cheers!

With the engine running, pull each wiring connector off each of the fuel injectors then put the connector back on, do this for each injector. Look for the one that doesn't make a sound difference in the engine.

Replaced all fuel lines with the thick rubber reinforced type and new correct stainless clips not long back, along with air filter and fuel filter. I put a fuel filter on the return too, because I cleaned the lines and didnt want any crap going back into the tank!

New plugs to haynes spec. Ill check how sooty they are. its about 20 miles there and 20 miles back, odd bit of queuing ect, takes 35-45 minutes each way.

Fair bit of crap in the exhaust, but what exhaust doesnt have a bit of soot! I'll check the plugs and get some pics.

The tank is a metal one, its clean with no rust.

There are no obvious strong smells of petrol, except when choked.

I have replaced the rear shoes, but don't think they are dragging. They are not crazy hot or anything after a drive, but I'll jack it up and check.

It does misfire occasionally, but i have replaced plugs, cap, coil and leads, and it has a pertronix electronic ignition module so there shouldnt be any issues there. The vacuum and mechanical advance both work according to a mechanic, and I checked them too, and the advance seems fine. I think it is purely a fueling issue.

As you can see, I have already spent a fair bit of time on this engine, and if I am going to have to chuck any more at it, i may as well get a gt or nz motor instead, as it isn't the standard engine anyway (1.3 instead of 1.1)

Thanks for all the replies and advice!

Oh and something I should add- I am running 15x7 wheels with 195 tires. Should this make much difference?

Cheers!

With the engine running, pull each wiring connector off each of the fuel injectors then put the connector back on, do this for each injector. Look for the one that doesn't make a sound difference in the engine.

He said at the start it's a carbed mk1

How are you driving it?

If you boot it everywhere then you're fuel economy will be bad - its a carb, if your foot is flat to the floor its getting the maximum amount of fuel, unlike in a fuel injection system where it adjusts to the values of the sensors.

Edited 14 September, 201313 yr by derskine

Mike- did you even read the thread? The car is carbed, and doesn't run on 3 cylinders.

I checked the plugs, they look like the ideal plug picture on Google images! A little wet and black on the end of the threads though.

Checked the spark too whilst I was at it. It was a blue/purple colour.

As for wheel dragging, checked the rear and you can hear the brake shoes touching in a few places, but not dragging as such. The fronts only get about one turn when I spin them, but there is the resistance of the driveshafts etc. Does this sound right?

Edited 14 September, 201313 yr by chez08

Hmm, plugs a little wet suggests a little overfuelling

Brakes dragging shouldnt make much difference, brake calipers usually drag ever so slightly as the pressure release isn't quite enough to fully drag the pistons back in

I wouldn't worry at all about drum brakes dragging slightly - they're hopeless anyway

Just to add, you will get raped on insurance with an engine swap at 17, doesn't matter what engine it is, its still an engine swap, they don't care, even if its a smaller engine.

Edited 14 September, 201313 yr by derskine

My insurance were fine with the 1.3 from 1.1, despite the 10hp increase. They were also not worried about coilovers and alloys, and they said that if I wanted to add fuel injection for economy purposes then that would have no affect also. So I assume they will be OK with a NZ conversion.

Here are some pics of plugs and exhaust. Sorry if some of the questions sound stupid, but before this car the main experience I have had with engines is modifying and rebuilding the engine on my go kart to make it from 6 to 12-13hp haha!

Oh and some of the golf

Oh and it is probably worth a mention that the car passed mot with the emissions fine. They were better than last year with the Weber.

Edited 14 September, 201313 yr by chez08

Plugs look fine to me

Have you had a play with the mixture screw on the carb?

I have had a play with the one to adjust idle speed, not sure what it does, I really should look into this carb!

However, the idle is still not right. Sitting on the drive it is around 1000rpm when warm, but sometimes it sits at 1500rpm and other times it cuts out, like when you come to a junction.

Edited 14 September, 201313 yr by chez08

Do golfs have a rubber mounting flat between the inlet and carb?

If so - this will most certainly be the issue

I would take a good look at the dizzy though, sounds like maybe it's knackered

Edited 14 September, 201313 yr by derskine

You've more than doubled power in an engine already!

20 miles in 45 to 35 mins is 27 to 34mph. So not booting it,

You making good use of your 4 gears and turning off engine when queueing?

What profile are your 195 tyres? They may have a larger rolling distance than 175/70r13 (I think that's Golf standard), making the mile-o-meter read less. Don't look under-inflated from the pics.

Nice Golo by the way.

No petrol smell, good. Metal tank, eh?

Cable tie a tissue around the base of the filler neck, see whether it gets damp with a full tank overnight.

Not in rainy weather obviously.

You said spark colour was blue/purple. That with a Colortune? Or just sparkplug in free air.

I expect a Colortune to show bunsen blue at idle.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunsen_burner Operation flame far right, centre cone for power, outer cone (Colin Campbell describes it as whitish blue) for economy.

Purple is oil in the fuel - it says here - http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=265756#entry2205469.

No idea how that could happen on a four-stroke. Worn piston rings? Valve stem seals?

Plugs look good: grey electrode, light tan nose, but the ceramic nose on 3rd from left looks whiter than the others.

That might just be the contrast against the paint, rather than against the bonnet catch. White nose is normally lean indication.

Might be worth comparing the spark colour across cylinders. There will be some variation.

Is the engine reaching operating temperature quickly (thermostat closed below 75-ish deg) and is there good hot coolant flow through the inlet manifold? If not petrol will be condensing out of vapour form in the inlet manifold runners when decelerate.

It will probably prefer one runner. Perhaps the one matching the white plug? Liquid petrol does not burn all that well. Vapour does. But surely not enough to make economy that bad.

Is that an over-large exhaust pipe? Surely there's not enough cam overlap to make a difference. Doesn't look like a chimney.

"they said that if I wanted to add fuel injection for economy purposes then that would have no affect also"

JFDI then.

Edited 16 September, 201313 yr by dvderlm

have you measured the mpg properly , best way is to brim the tank do your weeks driving or whatver and note down the milage then brim it again and work it out after noting how many litres you used

try a few weeks with differant driving styles and see how it goes

I have had a play with the one to adjust idle speed, not sure what it does, I really should look into this carb!

However, the idle is still not right. Sitting on the drive it is around 1000rpm when warm, but sometimes it sits at 1500rpm and other times it cuts out, like when you come to a junction.

Random air leak symptoms/ misfire.

The rubber carb flange like derskine said.

Ignore my other rambings.

Wow! What a forum.

Ill try and answer all the questions-

Yes there is a rubber mount. I replaced it with a diy one made from aluminium with gaskets and insulated by tuffnol. See here

http://vwgolfmk1.org.uk/forum/index.php?page=topicview&id=small-block-carb-engines_2%2Freplaced-rubber-carb

How can I check the dizzy? There doesnt appear to be excessive play and the springs on the centrifugal advance are ok. The vacuum advance is ok also. As said previously, points have been stripped out and replaced with a pertronix electronic ignition module.

I will admit the first few days I was booting it, then I realised that the 1.3 is slow anyway so theres no point! But in the first week, I did approximately 175 miles worked out not using the odometer! That was the college trip 7 times (20miles), a 10 mile round trip to wadebridge and back, a couple of 1 mile short runs and a run from town to my house from the petrol station. I then filled up with 7 gallons of petrol. Think the odometer showed 190 miles more, but the tires are 50 profiles and slightly smaller in diameter than the standard tires.

So 175/7= exactly 25mpg.

Since then I have done the trip to college 3 times and one short trip of 3-4 miles on the country lanes, and the tank is reading down 1/3. This is with me trying to drive economically, barely going over 70 on the speedo.

Have been turning off the engine when queing then shat myself when I realised that the brakes dont work well! Also, turned off coming up to a roundabout going uphill. Almost didnt start again :/

I'll check the filler neck if it ever stops raining!

The spark colour was in free air. Dont own a colortune, ill buy one if they are worthwile, just heard some bad things about them.

All the plugs looked pretty much the same, one had a very slightly more purply red tinge.

Oh and both me and a garage did a compression test. Seemed ok. Set the valve clearances too.

I did suspect the thermostat, and may check it. Warms up in 5-10 mins of idling, but when on the dual carriageway the gauge reads to the left of upright and in traffic it reads to the right of upright. I replaced both gauge and sender (I managed to break both with a HT blast when using my oldskool gunson timing light!)

Not sure about hot coolant running through inlet manifold. How do i check? The exhaust heaty thing is connected though. Heard of people removing these and plugging it off when the pipe rusts through!

The backbox is not standard. But I would have thought that would not have made a lot of difference. Just more free flowing and louder. (Wasnt me haha)

I have also tried to check for air leaks with a few different cans of flammable stuff. None found. I haven't replaced the inlet manifold gasket, but I haven't removed it either, so dont see why it would go bad!

Think thats everything for now! Definently on the search for a gt or nz engine with box!

Edited 15 September, 201313 yr by chez08

If you're driving at 70 with a 4 speed box your economy will be rubbish...

The rev difference between 60 and 70 is quite substantial, try driving at 60 and keeping a constant speed

But the erratic revving does mean there's something not right, I've never worked on a golf just polos but if it has a hall sender then I'd strongly suggest checking that out, they have a habit of going wrong.

I'll give it a go next week! Still, cant believe the 10mph difference would affect economy that drastically?! Would a 5 speed box help?

The hall sender is the thing that replaced points, right? If so, i have an electronic ignition module, does this count? I could try getting it set up on points.

A 5 speed box would help, listen to the engine at 70, if its revving its tits off you're burning loads of fuel

An no, electronic ignition polos still had hall senders, however, not 100% golfs had them at all

My advice is to try driving 60, and keeping a constant speed, avoid stopping but anticipate stopping and slow down before you have to stop, obviously there are situations where you have to stop though

Edited 15 September, 201313 yr by derskine

Wow! What a forum.

...

Not sure about hot coolant running through inlet manifold. How do i check? The exhaust heaty thing is connected though. Heard of people removing these and plugging it off when the pipe rusts through!

Yeah, it's raining here too or I'd be working on my own car.

If it is a water heated inlet manifold there will be rubber pipes to and from the water pipe which runs parallel to and along the back of the engine. Feel these pipes through a cloth then bare handed. Inlet is gearbox end. Should be more than hand hot when engine warm.

If not drain coolant- clean the pipes- refill. You can reuse the coolant if not brown (rusty).

Don't think there are any exhaust heated inlet manifold 1.3 engines as cross-flow design.

The "exhaust manifold heaty thing" (hot air deflector) is for inlet air preheating when cold. There's a temperature controlled valve fed by carb vacuum that pulls open a flap in cold weather to let the exhaust warmed air in. The valve is in the filter box airstream so will close when needed.

Still does not explain the cutouts/misfires.

I know you say the advance is fine, but that's presumably not checked under load. Could your timing light accident have slightly fried the Pertronix electronic points replacement? Dunno how you test that theory.

Pertronix website says the plugs can be gapped a little wider which will give a bigger spark.

How clean are the ignition leads?

If they are dirty it might arc to earth as higher voltage then from points.

Oh yeah, 175/70/r13 is same rolling distance as 195/50/r15 near as 0.14%

http://www.carbibles.com/tyre_size_calculators.html

Did you keep the 1.1 engine's gearbox when you moved to 1.3?